Saved by Water

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SophieT said:
the KJ is not perfect and is not inspired and actually has numerous erroneous translations in it
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What Bible is perfect, then?

I believe that God is both sovereign and Omnipotent and loving.

Because He is sovereign and Omnipotent He is able to preserve His unadulterated message in a language that we can understand.

Because He is loving, He is motivated to do so.

There are abject differences between the message of the kjv and the messages of some other translations.

So, which of those other translations has the unadulterated truth of God that we can rely upon for salvation?
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
actually in the Origional king james bible.

it says repent YE (plural form of the word you) and let every one of YOU (singular form of the word you) be baptized.

You also should look in the greek. It does not say what you think it says.
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Actually YE and THEE is singular and YOU is plural.

(see, for example, 1 Corinthians 12:21, feet is plural).
 
Wansvic said:
I have never said a person receives the Spirit when they get water baptized. I know some people on here believe that to be true. I do not. What I have always contended is what the bible shows. Water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin is a requirement. And in addition, everyone must receive the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. They are two separate experiences. This is clearly shown by the following records:

Jews and Gentiles received the Holy Ghost first and were later water baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38, 10:44-48)
Samaritans and the 12 Ephesus disciples obeyed water baptism in the name of Jesus first and afterward received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:12-17, Acts 19:1-6)

These scriptures point out the truth that both are required and demand no specific sequence.
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I think that Acts 2:38 is a conditional promise according to Acts 2:39.

See Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:3-4, 2 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22.

The Holy Ghost is absolutely promised to those who receive baptism in Jesus' Name.

Can they receive the Holy Ghost apart from fulfilling that condition? The scriptures would seem to say so.

Although, in the case of Cornelius and friends, it may very well have been an exception to the rule for that God had to convince the circumcision group that Gentiles could be saved.
 
Wansvic said:
What is the name? The answer to that question will resolve the issue.
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If it is Jehovah, then the name of the Son is Jehovah.

If it is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, then the name of the Father and the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
 
FreeGrace2 said:
Once again, no one is arguing against water baptism.

The argument is about what it is FOR. It's NOT to get saved, NOT to receive the Holy Spirit.
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Remission of sins and the Holy Ghost are absolutely promised to those who receive baptism in Jesus' Name (Acts 2:38-39).
 
justbyfaith said:
Actually YE and THEE is singular and YOU is plural.

(see, for example, 1 Corinthians 12:21, feet is plural).
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Ye (/jiː/) is a second-person, plural, personal pronoun (nominative), spelled in Old English as "ge". In Middle English and early Early Modern English, it was used as a both informal second-person plural and formal honorific, to address a group of equals or superiors or a single superior.

In the origional KJV. Peter told them (everyone) to repent. and let every one of YOU be baptized, and YE shall recieve the gift..

the term repent and gift of the spirit was referenced by the plural words THEM and YE

Baptism is only commanded to the singular group YOU.

this fits the greek rendering of the chapter in which peter tell everyone (2nd person plural) to repent for the gift of the spirit. and then tells individuals (3rd person singular) to be baptized.
 
FreeGrace2 said:
You really need to GIVE UP on your Acts 2:38 mantra.

Acts 10-11 PROVES that the pattern of receivng the Holy Spirit is by faith. Period.

Let it go. You HAVE BEEN refuted. Accept the truth and reject the false doctrine you have been pushing.
justbyfaith said:
No; you have been refuted.
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This is just hilarious. :ROFL:

The pattern for receiving the Holy Spirit has been clearly presented in the account of Cornelius and Gal 3:2 and 5.

You should accept the Word.
 
justbyfaith said:
One of the main reasons why I abide by the kjv is that I do not want to be cheated out of something that the Holy Spirit might want to say to me.
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So, just to be clear, you actually believe that those who read the NASB, ESV or any other version are going to be cheated out of something that the Holy Spirit "might want to say" to them.

That is pure absurdity. No offense.

btw, thank you for giving me permission to believe what I believe about the kjv of the Bible. Of course I really needed that in order to continue to believe what I believe.
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I don't need to give anyone permission to believe anything. I just accept that people will believe anything.
 
justbyfaith said:
I'm reading Romans 6:22 in the kjv...

and it says "fruit unto holiness"...nothing about growing up in the faith there.

Holiness is a state of being that has to do with being set free from sin as the verse plainly tells us.
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This is where spiritual discernment comes in.

Just because you don't see some exact wording that you want to see, you deny what it refers to. That's just a slick way of not having to deal with teaching that you don't agree with.

What is "fruit"? Righteousness that comes from faith. It's the evidence of one's faith.

It is only those who actually produce such fruit that become holy.

Maybe you don't realize how many believers function only from their sinful nature, rather than the new nature they received when born again.

Unbelievers and even atheists can and do live moral lives. However, all that is from their sinful nature, and is OFFENSIVE to God. Isa 64:6. Stinks like used menstrual rags to God.

Only when a believer is in fellowship with the Lord (1 John 1, most believers have no idea, even) and are filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18, again, most believers have no idea how to be filled) will produce "fruit" that is acceptable to God.

Much of the energy and works done in the local body of believers is done in the energy of the flesh, not by the Spirit. The proof is the fact that so many believers don't even understand the bolded red words above.
 
justbyfaith said:
I have mentioned before that Galatians 2:11 in the ESV leads to an abject difference in doctrine from what we find in the kjv which speaks to us plainly of eternal security throughout its pages.
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Gal 2:11 ESV
"But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned."

Huh? this verse has NOTHING to do with loss of salvation.

The word "condemned" is:

kataginóskó: to blame
Original Word: καταγινώσκω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kataginóskó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ag-in-o'-sko)
Definition: to blame
Usage: I condemn, blame.

Peter was wrong and Paul called him on it. That's all.
 
FreeGrace2 said:
What is clear is that both Cornelius and Gal 3:2,5 is the biblical pattern for everyone.
justbyfaith said:
What should be clear is that the situation with Cornelius and friends was an exception to the rule.
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If you actually believe that, then you need to explain how Gal 3:2 and 5 are also "exceptions". Since those verses is EXACTLY what occurred with Cornelius.
 
justbyfaith said:
Remission of sins and the Holy Ghost are absolutely promised to those who receive baptism in Jesus' Name (Acts 2:38-39).
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Regardless of your futile attempts to wear out Acts 2:38, it won't work.

The pattern is found in Cornelius and Gal 3:2,5.

The crowd in Acts 2 directly participated in Christ's crucifixion. Special circumstance.
 
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