Saved by faith alone?

[Mem]

In my words... to be truly sorry, and to turn from your sin.

This is off Google and I agree with it...
Repentance is reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past or present wrongdoings, which is accompanied by commitment to and actual actions that show and prove a change for the better.

The discussion of the four soils brought to mind and compelled me to search the phrase, 'repent of your unbelief' and I came up on an AI generated summary to the question "What is the root cause of unbelief" and seeing 'the root' mentioned, I read further where the 1. reason given had to do with 'desire and preference,' or, iow, a favoring of one's personal will..."rather than submit to God's will..."

The example of the man that said, "Lord, I believe. Help thou my unbelief," strikes me as his recognition of the rocks in the soil of his heart and a plea for help in removing them. And it occurred to me that anyone rarely walks up on an entirely 'good' patch of soil without noticing either rocks, thorns, if not also 'tread marks' or birds nearby.

 

[TMS]

Faith and works has a lot to do with the belief ....
Once saved always saved.

Roms 11 makes it plan for me...

Rom 11:17-23
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Notice that being cast away and being grafted in is conditional to the faith.

Faith can change. Every day we can grow closer to Christ or fall away.

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Paul thought it was a possibility to be a cast away..

 

[mailmandan]

In my words... to be truly sorry, and to turn from your sin.

This is off Google and I agree with it...
Repentance is reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past or present wrongdoings, which is accompanied by commitment to and actual actions that show and prove a change for the better.

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. To change one's mind.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G3340/metanoeo.htm#:~:text=Strong's #3340: metanoeo (pronounced met-an-o-eh'-o) from 3326 and,i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent. Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ. (Acts 20:21)

The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind).

 

[mailmandan]

Once saved doesn't mean your always saved.

Continued forgiveness is conditional for the believer. The parable is found in Matthew 18:21-35, and revolves around the forgiveness of God. A certain king responded to the pleas of his servant and forgave him a large debt. That servant went out and found a fellow servant who owed him a small amount and showed no mercy, throwing him in prison because he could not pay. When the king heard what had happened, he rescinded (revoked, canceled) his cancellation of the large debt and had his servant thrown to the tormentors till he paid in full.

No one can deny the obvious teaching of this parable. Even though God graciously forgives those who apply for it, that forgiveness is not without conditions for the future. We can lose that forgiveness by being unmerciful to others.

So, if we are not "merciful enough" in the future "in addition" to placing our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation then we won't be saved? That sounds like "type 2 works salvation." In regard to the parable of the unforgiving servant in Matthew 18, since the wicked servant did not have the means to repay his debt, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. (vs. 25) That is not how it works with the Lord in regard to our sin debt. Jesus doesn't order that our wife and children be sold in order to pay off the sin debt. Keep in mind this is a parable that makes a point about forgiveness.

The wicked servant fell on his knees before his master, asking him to be patient with him and he will pay back everything. (vs. 29) The wicked servant did not ask his master to forgive his debt. That is not how it works with the Lord. He is not going to forgive our sin debt because we ask Him to be patient with us and we will pay it back, no matter how much we beg (vs. 32) with a wicked heart that is unwilling to forgive in such small matters. (vss. 28-30) The debt is too enormous to pay back!

The parable does demonstrate the mercy of the Lord who is willing to forgive, but ultimately, wicked, unforgiving hearts (which do not represent those who are born of God) can expect no forgiveness. Even though the master in the parable cancelled the debt of his wicked servant (just as our sin debt was paid in full and cancelled at the cross) he did not infallibly know his heart was wicked, until his wicked servant refused to forgive his fellow servant in such a small matter and even had him thrown into prison until he paid back the small debt.

So, even though his debt was cancelled, ultimately, he was not forgiven. The Lord Jesus Christ infallibly knows our hearts and ultimate forgiveness of sin is based on grace through faith and not on pleading for more time to pay back a debt that is too enormous to pay back with a wicked, unforgiving heart.

This is in harmony with the words of the Lord in Ezekiel 33:13,
When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

The principle is repeated in verse 18,
When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.

So it isn't simply get on the narrow way and it is smooth sailing from there.

Ezekiel 18:29 - But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?

In Ezekiel 33:13, we read - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith.

*The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that BELIEVES.

As James Fawcett Brown points out - righteous--one apparently such; as in Matthew 9:13, "I came not to call the righteous," that is, those who fancy themselves righteous. First please notice the underlined words "his righteousness" meaning that the "righteous" turns from his righteousness. That is his OWN righteousness.

 

[John146]

Faith and works has a lot to do with the belief ....
Once saved always saved.

Roms 11 makes it plan for me...

Rom 11:17-23
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Notice that being cast away and being grafted in is conditional to the faith.

Faith can change. Every day we can grow closer to Christ or fall away.

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Paul thought it was a possibility to be a cast away..

This passage in Romans is concerning gospel privileges. The Jews, as a whole, rejected Jesus, were blinded, and the gospel went to the Gentiles. If the Gentiles, as a whole, the Lord will bring their time to an end.

 

[mailmandan]

Those who do not endure to the end will have their names blotted out of the book of life. Advocates of eternal security deny it could ever happen, but read the frightening possibility for yourself in Revelation 3:5, "He that overcometh . . . I will not blot out his name out of the book of life."

Not blot his name out... this implies that if you do not overcome your name will be blotted out.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So our names can be removed from the book of life.. that is not once saved always saved

There are three ways the book of life is referred to in the Bible. The book of the living (Psalm 69:28), the book of life (Philippians 4:3; Revelation 3:5; 20:12, 15), and the lamb’s book of Life (Revelation 13:8; 21:27). There are those who hold the view that the first two phrases refer to a book which contains the names of every person who has physical life upon the earth and the third phrase, the Lamb’s Book of Life, refers to a book which contains the names of every person who has eternal life in Jesus Christ.

The alternative view is that there is only one book of life and when unbelievers die, their names are removed from the book of life. Revelation 13:8 indicates that names have been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. In Psalm 69:28, we read - May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous. In Revelation 20:12-15, we read that books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life, and anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

What is the Book of Life and the Book of the Living? | NeverThirsty
Is it possible for a person’s name to be erased from the Book of Life? | GotQuestions.org

Now in regard to Revelation 3:5 - "He who overcomes I will never blot out his name from the book of life." The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Believer/Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? Believers are overcomers in Christ and not in themselves.

Certain folks read Revelation 3:5 as if God’s pen is raised and ready to strike out the name of any Christian who does not overcome every possible struggle in life that there is to overcome in this life. They read into it like this: "If you don't overcome every struggle in life and win the victory based on the merits of your performance, (some even promote sinless perfection) then you’re going to lose your salvation! But that is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning.

 

[Gideon300]

yes, I did based on the fact that they turned their backs on God and the Bible and lived a sinful life. God says we can know them by their “works.” We ARE able to judge “works”. But saying they were never saved in the first place ( which is what you say) is judging their HEARTS, their sincerity, their salvation. THAT we cannot know or judge. Because we have no way of knowing—at best you are just guessing and judging them in a way that God has condemned.

Judging hearts as evil ( not good) also shows a lack of love for that person as 1 Corinthians 13 says.

"The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments......"

There is righteous judgement as instructed by the Holy Spirit. There are two kinds of judging, first as in a court of laws but also as in discernment. We should be discerning. We are required to judge and test. The church is packed with make believers whose Christianity is fake. They are a blight, not a blessing. If those people were challenged, they would either repent and be saved or leave. Too many leaders think it is a numbers game. God thinks otherwise. He seeks quality, not quantity.

 

[mailmandan]

Faith and unbelief are not binary concepts in the Bible: such that you either have faith or you have unbelief. The Bible describes faith and unbelief as a spectrum from a strong faith that knows what is believed, to a strong unbelief that refuses to even listen or countenance what one is being asked to believe. Our experience is one of relative certainty and uncertainty. As the man with the epileptic boy said, "Lord, I believe! Help my unbelief.

Faith that saves trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Anything short of that is unbelief in regard to obtaining salvation. (John 3:18) There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief resulting in salvation" as I already previously explained.

A living faith is determined by its fruit.

That is true. A good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. (Matthew 7:17) Jesus said, by their fruit you will know them. Only the 4th soil was considered good ground that produced good fruit.

If I am doing things commensurate with a faith that Jesus is risen and Lord, and has all authority or that X is true, then my faith is living and active, because it does not abide alone, but has commensurate works.

Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of a living, active faith.

If I do not do things that are commensurate with a faith that Jesus is risen and Lord and has all authority, or that X is true, then my faith is dead and inactive, because it abides alone, without works.

Faith is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. No good works at all would demonstrate there is no root.

 

[PaulThomson]

Faith is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. No good works at all would demonstrate there is no root.

Are you of the view that the plants that withered in the sun had literally, no roots. And the plant choked by thorns had literally no roots? Have you ever seen a plant grow but not reach fruitfulness that was also without any roots?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Oh. You are so much more righteous than me, because of what you are doing.

no.

I am on my knees crying out because of how unrighteous I am

I am not the one pu,ping my chest

 

[rogerg]

I believe it is God that gives us the victory and by the power of God we are able to overcome.
But are you saying we can not choose to reject God.
Can we choose to follow the flesh rather then the Spirit.
By walking in the Spirit..... there is no condemnation.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Do we have a choice?

No, no choice. Not only can the unsaved choose to reject God's gospel but do so consistently without exception. They do because they are in the flesh, spiritually blind, trusting in their works for salvation. It is God who at a certain point, takes His elect from spiritual death unto spiritual life. Those He makes spiritually alive He gives a new spirit, new heart, and a renewed mind (see 2 Co 5:17 below). This is an unconditional and unilateral action on God's part, through His New Covenant - to be placed in Christ Jesus is entirely of God, not man. That is what makes salvation by grace.

[Col 2:13 KJV]
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

[Rom 8:9 KJV]
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

[1Co 1:30 KJV]
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

[2Co 1:21-22 KJV]
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

[2Co 5:17 KJV]
17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

[2Ti 1:9 KJV]
9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No one is pushing this nonsense.

This is just a boogieman that lives in your head.

wow. are you new here? Because this is flat out wrong,

next to calvinism and osas debate, its one of the largest debates in this chatroom

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes, lets just ignore them all.

"Lord, Lord did we not disobey all your commands."

no, I never said that

I said if one command is required to be saved. we better obey them all as a requirment to be saved.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Your answer here is quite telling.

"You will be saved (physical salvation not spiritual)".

So Jesus is simply promising these people that if they endure these hardships He will not let them be physically killed???

This is what you think Jesus is promising here?

It seems that no matter what is presented, you will just find some lame excuse to brush it aside.

He is giving them hope. the worst tribulation this world has ever seen. an anti Christian sentiment unlike any we have ever seen. No hope in site. he is telling them, if you endure. you will see me coming in the clouds.. (this is a short time period. to many it will probably feel like a lifetime)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Harmonise these with saved by faith only, without works.

Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Mat 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Mar 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Harmize those with this

Because non of what you posted here refutes salvation by Grace through faith

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 8 not of works lest anyone should boast


Romans 4:4, 16, 23- 25
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

1. Agreed.
2. Agreed.
3. I will trust in Christ to work in me to will and to do what pleases God.

If you do them to get saved

You will fail

Its one thing to do works

its another to boast in those works as a means of your salvation

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Way to prefer division over resolution!
Peace/agreement is easily achieved by believing we are saved by grace
through faith in the creed/kerygma before working with God/cooperating with GW
regarding how we should then live (didachaic doctrines).

IOW, normally saving faith in Jesus as Lord is followed by loving works, because that is our Lord's command (John 13:34),
which is why Jesus said saving faith would be signified by such loving fruit (John 13:35).

We may say "normally" because there could be cases like the thief on the cross
where a sincere conversion to Christ resulting in eternal life occurs just prior to death.

there will never be resolution when 2 people teach apposing gospels.

There is one way to heaven. not many ways.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No one is pushing that we are saved by water baptism? Are you serious?

wonder what he is reading?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Okay, name one.

You're not saved by faith alone, but faith is a necessary part of salvation, but also not in and of itself. Faith is cuppleled with belief, and confession of belief is necessary as is repentance and baptism. All are necessary to be saved.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What does your comment have to do with mailmandan's forced "harmonizing" scripture to fit his faith alone regeneration theology?

what part of grace alone do you fail to grasp?