Saved by faith alone?

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Do we agree that Paul is saying that Abraham's faith was considered by God to be Abraham's righteousness?
No. Christ's righteousness was Abraham's righteousness. That's what was imputed to him. Faith was the vehicle that God employed to bring salvation.
 
No. Christ's righteousness was Abraham's righteousness. That's what was imputed to him. Faith was the vehicle that God employed to bring salvation.
Can you show how you get that from the wording of the texts EG was citing and I responded to?
 
No. Christ's righteousness was Abraham's righteousness. That's what was imputed to him. Faith was the vehicle that God employed to bring salvation.
I don't see "Abraham believed God and Christ's righteousness was reckoned to him as righteousness" in the text.
"Christ's righteousness" does not appear as an antecedent for "it".
 
That is, an appeal to God for a clean conscience.

Agree re: appeal.

Part of the issue in the verse is how we interpret that one small word - how we translate the genitive.

eperOtaO: to ask upon, to beseech, implore. Not a pledge given, but a request made. the prefix epi intensifies the asking of erOtaO into an earnest pleading for something, often for an answer to a question. I think we agree that translating it as a pledge of a good conscience has no forensic support.

Agreed.

Petition in 1 Peter 3:21 just works better for me than request does.

Understood. I might reconsider depending how I would decide to translate other words like aitēma & deēsis
 
Agree re: appeal.

Understood. I might reconsider depending how I would decide to translate other words like aitēma & deēsis

Appeal works too, but I think I like petition better because it embodies relationship with a superior authority. We can appeal to superiors and equals, but we never petition an equal. So for me lordship is inherent in the word petition.
 
Believe what you like, but one thing's for certain. You absolutely cannot be saved until you're baptized into the body of Christ. Believe it, deny it, it doesn't matter. The words of scripture are clear and what you believe won't change
Ephesians4-5-6s.png

Ephesians 4 verses 5-6 ~ There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
 
Can you show how you get that from the wording of the texts EG was citing and I responded to?
The only righteousness that God accepts is perfect righteousness...except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees...Matthew 5:20. Read Romans 3:21-22...the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe...
If Abraham believed, what was accrued to him, like all who believe, was the righteousness of God in Christ. Also see 2 Corinthians 5:21. Also Philippians 3:9-10.
 
The only righteousness that God accepts is perfect righteousness...except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees...Matthew 5:20. Read Romans 3:21-22...the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe...
If Abraham believed, what was accrued to him, like all who believe, was the righteousness of God in Christ. Also see 2 Corinthians 5:21. Also Philippians 3:9-10.
Righteousness-Of-Christ.png

Righteousness Of Christ ~ “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” You were dead in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. The Son gives life to whom He is pleased to give it. If Christ is in you, your spirit is alive because of righteousness. We put on the righteousness of Christ. John 6 v 29, Ephesians 2 v 1, John 5:21b, fr Romans 8:10
 
Believe what you like, but one thing's for certain. You absolutely cannot be saved until you're baptized into the body of Christ. Believe it, deny it, it doesn't matter. The words of scripture are clear and what you believe won't change

Matthew 15:14. After awhile it is evident that they do not want the “truth.”
 
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Can you show how you get that from the wording of the texts EG was citing and I responded to?

The only righteousness that God accepts is perfect righteousness...except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees...Matthew 5:20. Read Romans 3:21-22...the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe...
If Abraham believed, what was accrued to him, like all who believe, was the righteousness of God in Christ. Also see 2 Corinthians 5:21. Also Philippians 3:9-10.

It seems that you can't show how you get that from the wording of EG's texts.
 
eperOtaO: to ask upon, to beseech, implore. Not a pledge given, but a request made. the prefix epi intensifies the asking of erOtaO into an earnest pleading for something, often for an answer to a question. I think we agree that translating it as a pledge of a good conscience has no forensic support.
An engagement ring is offered as a similar sort of pledge, isn't it? It's a pledge of a wedding.
 
The only righteousness that God accepts is perfect righteousness...except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees...Matthew 5:20. Read Romans 3:21-22...the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe...
If Abraham believed, what was accrued to him, like all who believe, was the righteousness of God in Christ. Also see 2 Corinthians 5:21. Also Philippians 3:9-10.
Certainly, the scribes and pharisees that are referred to there had no righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ. So, in that sense, it is easy for one's faith to exceed theirs, and match the righteousness of God, Who, undoubtedly, had faith in Jesus Christ.
After all, it is impossible to please God without faith whatever level of scribe and pharisaical righteousness anyone might possess.
 
Agree re: appeal.

Part of the issue in the verse is how we interpret that one small word - how we translate the genitive.



Agreed.



Understood. I might reconsider depending how I would decide to translate other words like aitēma & deēsis

Good catch. I did not note the case of "good conscience" being genitive.

1 Peter 3:21 [water] which (ὃ) also (καὶ) you (ὑμᾶς) a corresponding thing (ἀντίτυπον) now (νῦν) is saving (σῴζει) baptism (βάπτισμα) not (οὐ) of/from flesh (σαρκὸς) ἀπόθεσις (removal) of dirt (ῥύπου), but (ἀλλὰ) out of a conscience (συνειδήσεως) of a good (ἀγαθῆς) an earnest plea (ἐπερώτημα) into/for what is characteristic of God (εἰς θεόν) through (δι᾽) a resurrection (ἀναστάσεως) characteristic of Jesus Christ (Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ).

... which account is also an antitype. Baptism is now saving you - not a removal of dirt from flesh, but rather a good conscience's earnest plea for what is divine through a resurrection that is characteristic of Jesus Christ.

Baptism is a plea made by a repentant toward God (i.e. a turned-to-God) conscience. It is a plea for access to the divine resources that are in and through Christ, by choosing to die with Him in baptism so as to live in union with Him and His divine resources after baptism. in order to live in victory over sin, the flesh, the world and the devil. and please God.

2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 
Certainly, the scribes and pharisees that are referred to there had no righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ. So, in that sense, it is easy for one's faith to exceed theirs, and match the righteousness of God, Who, undoubtedly, had faith in Jesus Christ.
After all, it is impossible to please God without faith whatever level of scribe and pharisaical righteousness anyone might possess.
Have no idea what any of this has to do with what I wrote. Abraham's faith was the reason righteousness was imputed to him, but it was Christ's righteousness that was imputed and not Abraham's faith that was the source of his righteousness.
 
The only righteousness that God accepts is perfect righteousness...except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees...Matthew 5:20.

Righteousness does not need to be perfect to exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees. It needs to include a degree of faith sufficient to have one's sins forgiven. When that happens there is no unrighteousness left to mar the saint's ledger. The Pharisees refused to exercise such faith. A ledger with no debits for unbelief and some credits for faith, is more righteous than a ledger with many debits for unbelief and a few credits for occasional faith.

Read Romans 3:21-22...the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe...

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatsoever things the law is saying, it is saying to those in the law: so that every mouth may be start to be silenced, and all the world may start to become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore out of legal efforts no flesh shall be justified before Him: for through law is knowledge of missing the target.
Rom 3:21 But now a divine righteousness without law has been manifested (was and is continuing to be manifest), while being testified to by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even a divine righteousness through a faith characteristic of Jesus Christ for all and onto all those believing: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all missed the target and are falling short of the glory of God.
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely for his grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, for the declaration of his righteousness through the remission of missed targets that have happened, in the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 Toward a declaration, I say, in this present time of his righteousness: for him to be just, and to be justifying him who is being justified out of faith characteristic of Jesus.

3:21 In the phrase dikaiosunE theou, lit. a righteousness of a god, the indefinite theou can be understood either as referring to a god's righteousness, or adjectivally as a divine righteousness. Divine righteousness was manifested in and through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, without Jesus aiming to keep the law. But the law and the prophets testified to the life of Jesus being divinely righteous.
3:22 That divine righteousness that does not rely on legal efforts continues to be manifested by Christ for all mankind, and onto all those who are believing through a faith that is like Jesus' faith, that is characteristic of Jesus' faith. Jesus faith was and is a faith in God's character, a faith in God's willingness to forgive sinners who come to him for mercy, not a faith in a God who is only willing to accept those who perform perfectly. Those who have a similar faith to Jesus' faith will be justified by the God who is willing to forgive sinners who come to Him for mercy.
3:23-25 confirm this.
3:26 It is on account of the believer having a faith characteristic of Jesus, a faith that is like Jesus' faith, that the just God is justifying the ones believing.

There is no indication in the Greek, that the faith that the believer is exercising is the faith itself that Jesus Himself is exercising. It is a faith that is characteristic of Jesus. It is like Jesus' faith, having the same attributes as Jesus faith.
 
Have no idea what any of this has to do with what I wrote. Abraham's faith was the reason righteousness was imputed to him, but it was Christ's righteousness that was imputed and not Abraham's faith that was the source of his righteousness.
IOW, Abraham had faith in God's righteousness, not his own, and that was counted for him as righteousness.
 
Matthew 15:14. After awhile it is evident that they do not want the “truth.”
After a while, it is evident that certain folks are more interested in accommodating their biased church doctrine than they are in seriously considering the truth.
 
Certainly, the scribes and pharisees that are referred to there had no righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ. So, in that sense, it is easy for one's faith to exceed theirs, and match the righteousness of God, Who, undoubtedly, had faith in Jesus Christ.
After all, it is impossible to please God without faith whatever level of scribe and pharisaical righteousness anyone might possess.
Have no idea
You ignored EG's texts I was addressing. You jumped to completely different verses. That is not engaging in good faith dialogue.
I shared verses that undermined your conclusion.

Every biblical passage is to be understood as a part of a greater narrative. Isolating passages from the whole can lead to error. I gave you a greater context to show that your understanding didn't match the greater narrative.