I realize that sometimes I am not real clear in some of my responses, so bare with me, and I will try to give you answers that are more clear.
Salvation
- Thread starter ForestGreenCook
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If they call on the name of the Lord they already have been born again and have the security of their eternal inheritance.As other said sure to some degree. Well OT anyone that calls on the name of the lord shall be delivered/saved.
The un-regenerant person will not repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws that he can not discern and thinks it to be foolishness. (1 Cor 2:14) Only after a person's heart has been changed from "stony" to "fleshy" The stony heart will not respond to God's pricking, but the fleshy heart will. On the day of pentecost Peter accused some of being responsible for the death of Jesus and they were pricked in their fleshy heart and ask "what must we do".
Steven preached the same sermon to a group, and they were "cut" to their stony heart and gnashed on him with their teeth and stoned him to death. This tells us the different responses between the un-regenerant and the re-generant The un-regenerant man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot respond positively to spiritual things that he cannot discern.
Who are these people who believe on his name? Verse 13 - It is those which were born, not of blood, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH< NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN< BUT OF GOD.
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ChristianTonyB
Guest
It's ok. You have a right to your opinion, and to express it.
By 'check', I mean a prodding from the Holy Spirit to stop doing the wrong thing.
I understand what you say about the apostle's claim that if anyone calls on the name of the Lord they will be saved from punishment and death. However, we have to balance that with what the Lord Himself warned. He indicated that some will call on His name at judgement time, and He will declare to them that I never knew you, you that practice lawlessness. So to be saved we must do more than just declare our faith, we must be lawful as well.
The parable of the sower implies that some will happily accept the gift of faith initially, but for various reasons will subsequently toss it away. I came across a guy years ago, and we got chatting about Christianity. He said he used to believe, but then he gave it up, and appeared happy with his decision.
I think that 'once saved always saved' is a false premise, and can get people lulled into a false sense of security. I believe we have to continue to work on our salvation, which is our exoneration from past evils and the securing of eternal life. If we don't do that, then we'll be like the lazy guy that buried the talent to become like Christ that he received upon conversion, rather than to exercise it. We know that God will not be mocked, He won't tolerate it.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 KJV
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Our salvation is a progressive one. We will not be fully saved until the spirit, soul and even the body is saved when Christ comes. Hallelujah! That day is coming soon.
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Our salvation is a progressive one. We will not be fully saved until the spirit, soul and even the body is saved when Christ comes. Hallelujah! That day is coming soon.
This sounds like eternal salvation obtained by our good works. Is that what you are indicating?
I believe that the various hearts that the seed is sown in are all hearts that have been changed from the stony heart to a new fleshy heart and although they cannot contain the word, they still have the security of their eternal inheritance.
Yes, I believe that the scriptures teach that all those that God gave to Jesus to die for have the security of their eternal inheritance and none of them will lose it. Jesus paid for all of the sins of those that he received from his Father and not a one of the sins that he commits will cause him to lose his inheritance, Jesus took care of those on the cross, rendering those people holy and without blame.
Jesus paid the adoption price on the cross for all of those that his Father gave him taking away their sins, as far as the east is from the west, rendering them holy and without blame, and gave unto them the security of their inheritance of heaven.
We pattern our adoption process after the same manner as did God. First - God choose who he wanted to adopt. Second - Jesus paid the adoption price on the cross. Third - and final phase of the adoption is when Jesus will gather up those that his Father choose, and take them home with him.
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ChristianTonyB
Guest
No. I'm just reiterating what Jesus said. We can claim to be His followers, and even claim to have served Him in certain capacities, but if we haven't adhered to His two commandments and all that is implied by those, which includes obeying the laws of the land, He will reject our claim and be put amongst the 'goats' that are doomed to be destroyed. James emphasises this when he said faith without accompanying good works is lifeless, and will have no appeal/will be rejected by God.
The un-regenerant person has a heart of stone and the re-generant (quickened) person's heart has been changed to a fleshy heart that can be pricked by God. The un-regenerant man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, will not repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws, because he cannot discern them and thinks tem to be foolishness.
An example of the difference in these hearts: Acts 2:37 - On the day of pentecost Peter, speaking to some of the Jews, accused them of causing Jesus's death on the cross, and they were "pricked" in their heart, and said, unto Peter and the rest of the apostles. "men and brethren, what must we do"
In contrast: Acts 7:54 - Steven, preaching to a group of people, the same sermon as Paul taught, this group were "cut to the heart" and they gnashed on him with their teeth" and stoned Steven to death.
On the road to Damascus God told Saul "it is hard for thee to kick against the "pricks".
I agree that God gives us a new heart. I am curious about what others believe concerning this process partly because I think it possible that it varies from person to person. It just seems unlikely to me that a person is born again while they remain in unbelief and have no faith.
Death = separation. Once a person has been born again they obtain spiritual faith, and are born unto good works. If they quit doing good works, they will be separated from fellowship with God until they repent, but they will not be rejected from their eternal inheritance.
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ChristianTonyB
Guest
Hmmm, maybe I could have said, if I practice lawlessness by persistently breaking the rules of the road, by stealing from my employer a paper clip here or a pencil there, or taking extra time off for lunch without consent, or I require my employees to work extra hours without pay, or I ignore the plight of the poor, sick or lonely amongst my Christian brothers and sisters, or I mistreat people in any way, or I lust after something or someone...etc, etc, without feeling any remorse and not caring to change for the better, then my faith is useless/dead, and I'm destined for the second death.
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ChristianTonyB
Guest
Well, ok. But extrapolating if I may, from what you say here, one can conclude that if they don't repent and they continue to practice lawlessness, they will continue to be separated from fellowship with God. Logic would then infer that if they die in that unrepentant state, they will continue to remain separated from God, and for all eternity.
The Greek word for "sozo" means "to save, deliver, rescue".
The word can be used for any kind of physical deliverance or rescue, or soul salvation from the lake of fire.
Eph 2:8-10 - For by grace are you saved through faith (Jesus's faith, not mankind) and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created (quickened to spiritual life) unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Most of the born again people do not accept that God's quickening grace is sovereign, without any action from mankind. Believing in spiritual things is a work along with accepting Jesus as your saviour, doing good works, repenting, confessing, etc.
Can you understand that these works of mankind to gain eternal salvation tend to take away part of God's glory and applying it to mankind? When God quickens a person to the new spiritual life, it drastically changes the person's life.
There are far more people that will inherit heaven than those that will not. The harmonized scriptures will show that.
Exactly: saved by grace THROUGH faith. So how can someone who is born again have no faith? That is what you have proposed.
Salvation is actually independent of a sinner, until it is delivered to you as "the GIFT of Salvation".
So...When you think of .. ."what is salvation"...... the way to understand it best is to realize that is not anything that you can do.
= This eliminates, everything but Salvation.
See, Salvation is not a do, ... Salvation is a Savior.
Jesus is Salvation., and nothing else. John 14:6
What does that mean?
It means that once you understand this, then you will stop trying to save yourself, or keep yourself saved, and that is because you have understood that Salvation is a WHO.
And the WHO, is Jesus.
This means that if you have JESUS, in you, then you have the ONE who IS Salvation, and He has you.
"but what about water baptism, and commandment keeping, and taking the Sacrament's , and trying to be like Christ". ???
What about it?
What about it ? !!
That is all YOU doing that, and Salvation is not YOU...........its HIM.
So...When you think of .. ."what is salvation"...... the way to understand it best is to realize that is not anything that you can do.
= This eliminates, everything but Salvation.
See, Salvation is not a do, ... Salvation is a Savior.
Jesus is Salvation., and nothing else. John 14:6
What does that mean?
It means that once you understand this, then you will stop trying to save yourself, or keep yourself saved, and that is because you have understood that Salvation is a WHO.
And the WHO, is Jesus.
This means that if you have JESUS, in you, then you have the ONE who IS Salvation, and He has you.
"but what about water baptism, and commandment keeping, and taking the Sacrament's , and trying to be like Christ". ???
What about it?
What about it ? !!
That is all YOU doing that, and Salvation is not YOU...........its HIM.