Salvation is a Free Gift.
- Thread starter MikeF
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Well, to be honest, I'm no expert in biblical Greek, so I can only go by what my lexicon tells me, although
to me, they both seem to be logically equivalent of each other.
The one I use (from the Blue Letter Bible KJV) which says the following:
akouō (Key)
to me, they both seem to be logically equivalent of each other.
The one I use (from the Blue Letter Bible KJV) which says the following:
akouō (Key)
- to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
- to hear
- to attend to, consider what is or has been said
- to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
- to hear something
- to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
- to get by hearing learn
- a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
- to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
- to comprehend, to understand
Sorry friend but you’re seriously wrong. You can copy and paste that verse as many times as you like and it still will not change the meaning or the truth.
let’s consider it for a moment.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
God only draws His elect. Judas wasn’t drawn because he was not an elect.
Also keep in mind, a verse consists of all the words in it, not just a select few. And context is extremely important.
All who are taught of the Father come to Christ (context) none else. If Judas was an elect and was drawn to Christ, what is His promise. - he will be raised ip in the last day and given eternal life. Now unless you’re a Roman Catholic you know where Judas is. if not look up the sonof perdition
let’s consider it for a moment.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
God only draws His elect. Judas wasn’t drawn because he was not an elect.
Also keep in mind, a verse consists of all the words in it, not just a select few. And context is extremely important.
All who are taught of the Father come to Christ (context) none else. If Judas was an elect and was drawn to Christ, what is His promise. - he will be raised ip in the last day and given eternal life. Now unless you’re a Roman Catholic you know where Judas is. if not look up the sonof perdition
-
1
- Show all
the IS a very good point, but I also remind you of Paul Preaching to King Agrippa.
ACTS 26 SAYS: as paul tells his Testimony is verses 12-27
and King Agrippa said :
28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.”
WHAT!!!!! Agrippa heard the Gospel and rejected it by Choice?
Paul said in the closing of the 26th Chapter of Acts.
And Paul said, “I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains.”
ACTS 26 SAYS: as paul tells his Testimony is verses 12-27
and King Agrippa said :
28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.”
WHAT!!!!! Agrippa heard the Gospel and rejected it by Choice?
Paul said in the closing of the 26th Chapter of Acts.
And Paul said, “I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains.”
-
1
-
1
- Show all
1900 yrs ago
“preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:2-4 KJV
“preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:2-4 KJV
If someone is against the right to life and I communicate to them in a friendly persuasive way why the life of a child in the womb should be protected, so that they change their mind, I have opened their heart to the pro-life position by communicating persuasively. I do not reach into their heart/mind and do some kind of procedure that they cannot resist. That's how we use language.
If I make someone angry, I have done things that they have responded to with anger. I don't irresistibly inject anger into them. If I give someone courage, I do things that they have responded to with an increased sense of confidence and risk-taking. I don't inject courage into them. This is just common parlance for doing things that people respond to with an attitude change.
Lydia heard the message of God through Paul. She didn't just hear, but also listened, and her response to the message was to be willing to consider its claims. This is how God opened her heart to the gospel. God did something through Paul, he preached the gospel, and her response was openness rather than denial. God did not inject faith into Lydia so that she was irresistibly made gospel-believing.
If I make someone angry, I have done things that they have responded to with anger. I don't irresistibly inject anger into them. If I give someone courage, I do things that they have responded to with an increased sense of confidence and risk-taking. I don't inject courage into them. This is just common parlance for doing things that people respond to with an attitude change.
Lydia heard the message of God through Paul. She didn't just hear, but also listened, and her response to the message was to be willing to consider its claims. This is how God opened her heart to the gospel. God did something through Paul, he preached the gospel, and her response was openness rather than denial. God did not inject faith into Lydia so that she was irresistibly made gospel-believing.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
That's a reasonable point, but consider also that the Bible instructs us that no prophecy (verse) of scripture is of any
private interpretation, and that the spiritual should be compared to the spiritual to come to true understanding
of scripture. I believe this means that not all verses should immediately be taken at face value, but many require further
in-depth research in order to correctly determine doctrine. I should add, and as Foghorn implied, that only those who are led by the Holy Spirit - the elect - will find its truth.
private interpretation, and that the spiritual should be compared to the spiritual to come to true understanding
of scripture. I believe this means that not all verses should immediately be taken at face value, but many require further
in-depth research in order to correctly determine doctrine. I should add, and as Foghorn implied, that only those who are led by the Holy Spirit - the elect - will find its truth.
Let me remind you God did not open Agrippas heart. Yes he heard Paul speak and rejected it. As millions and millions of others have. God does not open every heart. He didn’t just open Lydia’s and no one else’s for salvation or that wouldn’t be fair would it? As some would say. And Paul prays he wishes all will believe because he does not know man’s hearts only God does.
So yes, Agrippa chose to reject the gospel, he wasn’t forced to. Lydia accepted it, and she wasn’t forced to either.
So yes, Agrippa chose to reject the gospel, he wasn’t forced to. Lydia accepted it, and she wasn’t forced to either.
English hear and listen have different meanings, right? They are not exactly the same, are they?
King James Bible
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, is coming unto me.
Since all the Jews were taught by God, and had therefore HEARD from God, but those who had both HEARD from God AND LEARNED FROM HIM, were the group that were guaranteed to seek Jesus out, I would say that [Jhn 10:27 KJV] 27 "My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me" is most likely. Learning implies hearing with attention, not just hearing as background noise. So thos ewho learn from Jesus are those who listen to him.
King James Bible
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, is coming unto me.
Since all the Jews were taught by God, and had therefore HEARD from God, but those who had both HEARD from God AND LEARNED FROM HIM, were the group that were guaranteed to seek Jesus out, I would say that [Jhn 10:27 KJV] 27 "My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me" is most likely. Learning implies hearing with attention, not just hearing as background noise. So thos ewho learn from Jesus are those who listen to him.
-
3
- Show all
My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me"
“I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. ….And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”
John 10:11, 16, 27-28 KJV
“I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. ….And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”
John 10:11, 16, 27-28 KJV