Sabbath

[prove-all]

when was fault found with it?

Actually it was [the people] that was at fault,
not Gods Covenant, or [His Statues and judgments].

 

[GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES]

my perspective is very much grounded in Scripture. what it says, and just as important, what it does not say,

there is not one single verse in the N. T. that commands Christ followers to keep the Sabbath. the other nine are repeated .

Mark 2.

It really matters very little that you dismiss the Sabbath as Jewish.
It isn't, but that which does not seek truth shall never know truth when they see it.

Jesus' followers followed the Sabbath. His Apostles practiced the Sabbath even when proselytizing the good news.
Mark 16 tells us that after the Sabbath is when Mary Magdalene went to Jesus' tomb only to find it empty.
And of course there is the scripture that says we are all one in Christ Jesus, and behind what Jesus taught concerning the Sabbath. He is Lord of the Sabbath that as made for us. Not once did Jesus state nor imply the Sabbath God created to be remembered and kept holy, no longer is to matter or to be kept. Those that make that argument have to prove it with scripture that actually does not exist.

 

[justpassinthrough]

I disagree with the definition that you give for the Greek word for new. It doesn't match what I was able to find on Bible Hub.

I believe the scriptures that you quote do not refer to A Renewed abrahamic Covenant.

• For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matthew 26:28

• Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

• Do you believe that we, as a new creation, are new as in something different, other than human or are we "new" as in having a quality we didn't have before?

The trouble with going to another person's "commentary" in Bible Hub or wherever, it's just that "man's" opinion, as well meaning as it may be.


When we use scripture and it's context, then we have established a sound definition from the source.

And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Galatians 3:15-16​

• Do you understand who made covenant with Abraham?

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” Genesis 17:1-2​

• Do you understand who preached the Gospel to Abraham?

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8​

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”​

Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”​

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”​

Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:56-59​

JPT

 

[gb9]

Mark 2.

It really matters very little that you dismiss the Sabbath as Jewish.
It isn't, but that which does not seek truth shall never know truth when they see it.

Jesus' followers followed the Sabbath. His Apostles practiced the Sabbath even when proselytizing the good news.
Mark 16 tells us that after the Sabbath is when Mary Magdalene went to Jesus' tomb only to find it empty.
And of course there is the scripture that says we are all one in Christ Jesus, and behind what Jesus taught concerning the Sabbath. He is Lord of the Sabbath that as made for us. Not once did Jesus state nor imply the Sabbath God created to be remembered and kept holy, no longer is to matter or to be kept. Those that make that argument have to prove it with scripture that actually does not exist.

not once did Jesus or any one else in the N.T. command anyone to keep it. and, since gentiles were never under the Law, they ( we, I ) were never commanded to keep it.

 

[justpassinthrough]

not once did Jesus or any one else in the N.T. command anyone to keep it. and, since gentiles were never under the Law, they ( we, I ) were never commanded to keep it.

Agreed.



JPT

 

[Blik]

We depend on the word to know God. Lots of people shake up the word saying they know better than what we are told. They use the new covenant to add and take away from scripture. They add meaning to scripture that isn't there, as an example that the time that it was discovered that Christ rose they say is explaining to us that God redid creation of the Sabbath on the sixth day. All scripture tells us about that was that it was discovered, and men filled in an earth changing, God changing idea that made up from that.

Scripture says God is eternal and the way God created our earth is in an eternal way. The sun always rises. The sixth day is the Sabbath.

Some people have taken on the responsibility to give needed care to others on the Sabbath. This does not change the fact that the sixth day is the Sabbath, but it does change the importance of keeping Sabbath compared with people's needs.

 

[Blik]

not once did Jesus or any one else in the N.T. command anyone to keep it. and, since gentiles were never under the Law, they ( we, I ) were never commanded to keep it.

Scripture is scripture, God didn't divide it up so you may listen to one part but ignore God in another. If you are reading one verse telling you that God made law one way and another that God made it another way then you have something wrong. Scripture agrees with scripture.

If you are reading that God created completely different kinds of humans and tells one kind one thing and another something different, then you are corrupting scripture.

An old Indian chief told his women "Me chief, you squaw". God doesn't do that to any of us.

 

[posthuman]

Actually it was [the people] that was at fault,
not Gods Covenant, or [His Statues and judgments].

are we talking about Abraham or Sinai now?

 

[gb9]

Scripture is scripture, God didn't divide it up so you may listen to one part but ignore God in another. If you are reading one verse telling you that God made law one way and another that God made it another way then you have something wrong. Scripture agrees with scripture.

If you are reading that God created completely different kinds of humans and tells one kind one thing and another something different, then you are corrupting scripture.

An old Indian chief told his women "Me chief, you squaw". God doesn't do that to any of us.

well, you see, there is this little piece of Scripture that blows this apart- the mount of transfiguration experience.

in which God the Father comes down, and says, in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and Elijah ( the Prophets ), " this is My beloved Son, in whom I an well pleased . hear Him!.

this elevates and separates the words in red above all other Scripture. and no where does Christ command anyone to keep the Sabbath,

 

[Blik]

It is from the Greek myths that a son of a God ditches the old guy and takes over control. This is word from demons. There are men who act for demons saying that the same thing is true of the one true God.

There is only ONE God speaking with the same voice. Scripture speaks in that voice, and if you find two Gods with different voices, then you are not understanding what scripture is trying to tell you.

 

[lightbearer]

please have the decency to change this obvious mistranslation to 'Joshua'

it happens to have a profound impact on what you're trying to preach.

What of the other 975 times?

The greatest thing one can know is that they know nothing.

 

[lightbearer]

not once did Jesus or any one else in the N.T. command anyone to keep it. and, since gentiles were never under the Law, they ( we, I ) were never commanded to keep it.

Yes they were. Two separate things being spoken of in Hebrews 4. The Gospel rest and the the Seventh Day Sabbath.

There remaineth therefore a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he ceases from his own works, as God did from his.

As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. He that has entered into his rest; the Gospel. Ceases from his own work like GOD did from HIS. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual! So we rest from our physical labor also.
(Heb 4:1-10 KJV)

 

[gb9]

Yes they were. Two separate things being spoken of in Hebrews 4. The Gospel rest and the the Seventh Day Sabbath.

There remaineth therefore a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he ceases from his own works, as God did from his.

As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. He that has entered into his rest; the Gospel. Ceases from his own work like GOD did from HIS. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual! So we rest from our physical labor also.
(Heb 4:1-10 KJV)

this is still not a command to keep it. and, in Romans 2, Paul clearly states that the gentiles did not have the law.

 

[lightbearer]

not once did Jesus or any one else in the N.T. command anyone to keep it. and, since gentiles were never under the Law, they ( we, I ) were never commanded to keep it.

Yes they were. Two separate things being spoken of in Hebrews 4. The Gospel rest and the the Seventh Day Sabbath.

There remaineth therefore a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he ceases from his own works, as God did from his.

As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. He that has entered into his rest; the Gospel. Ceases from his own work like GOD did from HIS. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ like we are called to do. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual! So we rest from our physical labor also.
(Heb 4:1-10 KJV)

this is still not a command to keep it.

The clause "There remaineth therefore" is in the indicative mood. Which means it is a simple statement of fact; therefore a command.

And the simple statement of fact is, He that has entered into the Gospel Rest ceases from there own work AS GOD DID FROM HIS. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ like we are called to do. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual! So we rest from our physical labor also because there remaineth a Sabbath keeping to the people of GOD. For he that has entered into the Gospel cease from there own work as GOD did from HIS on the Seventh Day.

 

[prove-all]

when was fault found with it?

Actually it was [the people] that was at fault,
not Gods Covenant, or [His Statues and judgments].

are we talking about Abraham or Sinai now?

Not sure where you find fault in the promises given to Abraham.
The only place I know that says [finding fault with] them , is verse below.

Hebrews 8:8 (KJV)
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Finding fault with [them] , the people of Israel, not Gods covenant.

When you said [when was fault found with it],
What covenant or promise then where you talking about,
that you referred as [it], that was faulty ?

 

[garee]

I would agree. Two separate things being spoken of in Hebrews 4. The Gospel rest which is not a ceremonial law as a shadow, and the shadow the ceremonial .

The word keep in the scripture because no man can keep any part of the law of God simply means to gurad closely with all of ones heart soul and mind .

Those who say they can keep in perfectly are not mixing faith( beleive God ) the gospel does not profit them.

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. Hebrews 4:2

There hearts remain hard as they judge shadows (sabbath days) used in ceremonies

The commandment : "let no man judge shadows" is followed by another commandment as a law having to do with: "Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility as those vainly puffed up by their fleshly mind.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,Colosians 2:16-18

 

[mailmandan]

this is still not a command to keep it. and, in Romans 2, Paul clearly states that the gentiles did not have the law.

Amen! The Greek word "sabbatismos" is used no where else in the Bible. It's amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else, in spite of the many references to Jews keeping the weekly Sabbath in the New Testament.

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary on "Rest" proves the Sabbatarian argument wrong:

A2. KATAPAUSIS (2663), in classical Greek, denotes a causing to cease or putting to rest; in the N.T., rest, repose; it is used (a) of God's rest, Acts 7:49; Heb. 3:11, 18; 4:1, 3 (twice), R.V. (1st part), "that rest" (the A.V., "rest," is ambiguous), 5, 11; (b) in a general statement, applicable to God and man, 4:10.

A4. SABBATISMOS (4520), a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, 4:10, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into Divine rest, that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God.

 

[gb9]

Amen! The Greek word "sabbatismos" is used no where else in the Bible. It's amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else, in spite of the many references to Jews keeping the weekly Sabbath in the New Testament.

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary on "Rest" proves the Sabbatarian argument wrong:

A2. KATAPAUSIS (2663), in classical Greek, denotes a causing to cease or putting to rest; in the N.T., rest, repose; it is used (a) of God's rest, Acts 7:49; Heb. 3:11, 18; 4:1, 3 (twice), R.V. (1st part), "that rest" (the A.V., "rest," is ambiguous), 5, 11; (b) in a general statement, applicable to God and man, 4:10.

A4. SABBATISMOS (4520), a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, 4:10, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into Divine rest, that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God.

that is all their " theology " is- smokescreens , mis-direction, and word games. once you see the formula, it is easy to prove wrong.

 

[Grandpa]

Yes they were. Two separate things being spoken of in Hebrews 4. The Gospel rest and the the Seventh Day Sabbath.

There remaineth therefore a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he ceases from his own works, as God did from his.

As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. He that has entered into his rest; the Gospel. Ceases from his own work like GOD did from HIS. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual! So we rest from our physical labor also.
(Heb 4:1-10 KJV)

That is NOT talking about keeping sabbath.

That is talking about Rest.

As God did from His is a direct comparison. God rested the 7th day. and the 8th. and the 9th. and He continues to Rest.

God DID cease from trying to work out His own righteousness OUTSIDE of Christ.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

This seems pretty meaningless if there is already and ONLY a sabbath rest. Why would someone need to come to Christ to receive a sabbath rest??? A "sabbath" rest is already included in the law.

But if this means Real Rest, a cease of works as God did from His, on every day of the week, then the Lords Words have real meaning here. A meaning that the legalists and judaizers can't seem to comprehend.

 

[Grandpa]

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:5


Can you list specific instructions from Jesus as to how we observe the Sabbath today?



JPT

People think that refers to the law of Moses written on stone.

But if you read the bible you will never find God referring to His Law, Commandments and statutes as being those given to Moses.

People assume.

Especially people who WANT to work at the law in their own understanding and strength.