Sabbath

[JohnTalmid]

You guys aren't reading and you're definitely not understanding. Nowhere in Acts 20 does it say they met on the sabbath.

You are assuming. You are so stuck in your error you can't comprehend the truth.

They met on the first day of the week. The sabbath had absolutely nothing to do with their meeting or how long it lasted.

They kept days like in Gen. Night then day, night then day. If they meet on the first day and Paul was going to leave in the early morning they where meeting on the seventh day and continued on until morning. Reading it again with the same blinders on is going to fix your understanding. If you renew your minds to understand from a biblical perspective you come to another understanding that shows YES they where meeting on Sabbath. Just because it doesn't say Sabbath doesn't mean they now believed the first day is now Sabbath. Talk about circular logic.

It was night before the sun came up right? Nobody can interpret correctly the renewed covenant through human logic. We must interpret it with all scripture. No one lives by bread alone but through every word of God.

 

[Blik]

A common misconception that people have and argue against the Sabbath is that it is not commanded directly in the New testament. This is based on an assumption, I say assumption because it is not seen in scripture.

Namely that the new replaces the Old testament. I am talking bible here not covenant. Of course the new covenant replaces the Old covenant. But the new and old bible writings are both current and needed to know God and his ways.

People assume that only what is directly commanded in the New is applicable. The bible does not teach this in any way.

As far as old covenant vs new covenant, The 7th day being Holy is before the Old Covenant anyway. So proving the Old Covenant is done away with which it is says nothing about the Sabbath.

I'm not sure I understand this post, but speaking of commandments in the new and in the old testamen: When Irsrael was given the new covenant there is nothing said about that it destroyed all that was in the old covenant. Christ told us He came to complete, not destroy.

A big percent of the NT is quotes of the OT, the rest is commentaries on the OT. The NT speaks of water as a symbol, without the OT we would not know what water is a symbol of. The OT speaks of blood required for atonement and for 4,000 years no one knew why, God just said it was so so they did it. The NT explained.

God is one and does not change. There is no new covenant ways and old covenant ways, ways at creation different from ways after Moses, and dividing the word between new and old. God is, I repeat, one.

 

[gotime]

I'm not sure I understand this post, but speaking of commandments in the new and in the old testamen: When Irsrael was given the new covenant there is nothing said about that it destroyed all that was in the old covenant. Christ told us He came to complete, not destroy.

A big percent of the NT is quotes of the OT, the rest is commentaries on the OT. The NT speaks of water as a symbol, without the OT we would not know what water is a symbol of. The OT speaks of blood required for atonement and for 4,000 years no one knew why, God just said it was so so they did it. The NT explained.

God is one and does not change. There is no new covenant ways and old covenant ways, ways at creation different from ways after Moses, and dividing the word between new and old. God is, I repeat, one.

I beg to differ, you have some good points for sure. But there is an old covenant and an new one. The old one was given to Israel the new was given to Israel also. Of course both the new and the old allowed for Gentiles.

The interesting thing is the new one was only new for Israel. The new preceded the Old in Abraham. The main difference of course that the messiah was still a promise when Abraham lived and once Jesus came it was a fulfilment at least to some extent. There is still things to be fulfilled like the new city etc.

 

[Blik]

I beg to differ, you have some good points for sure. But there is an old covenant and an new one. The old one was given to Israel the new was given to Israel also. Of course both the new and the old allowed for Gentiles.

The interesting thing is the new one was only new for Israel. The new preceded the Old in Abraham. The main difference of course that the messiah was still a promise when Abraham lived and once Jesus came it was a fulfilment at least to some extent. There is still things to be fulfilled like the new city etc.

I don't see where we differ?

Was it my point that the new covenant did not cancel all the old one told of but completed it so they both stand today?

 

[gotime]

I don't see where we differ?

Was it my point that the new covenant did not cancel all the old one told of but completed it so they both stand today?

Sorry I must have misunderstood your point.

 

[JohnTalmid]

The problem with using new and old covenants is there is not a new covenant. The covenants are renewed not new and old. All that is old and "done away with" is the condemnation too us in Messiah Yeshua today. Let me say that again THE CONDEMNATION that SIN brought is gone for us in Messiah. Why is it wrong with many who claim to be Christ like to do the instruction and live according to it out of love? Shouldn't we do what will last on for ever... For example rightousness won't ever die nor will hope or love. Sin however will come to an end and so will death. The word is a light for your feet. Light refers to Torah or instruction of God. Without condemnation is there a need to fear God? Shouldn't fear lead us to guard the commandments out of love IF WE REALLY Love Messiah. When Father lead you all to Messiah what was the point? Messiah said he would lead you to the Father. Also the family of Elohim does the will of the Father. So if you say I'm not truthful with rightousness why? Because I try to look like him in hope of being raised with a glorified I corruptible body! I don't condemn any of you for getting things wrong. If I did I would be a Hippocrate person because I too count on Yahshua for my sins to be forgiven and washed away daily. Y'all that think I or people like me are trying to work for salvation have not been truthful or graceful enough to see what we are saying. I love you or I wouldn't still be talking to any of you. Or I would have blocked you for being wrong. How bad would that be if I did that bearing in mind not one is rightous in themselves. John Talmid

 

[beta]

True, the sabbath is 'not commanded in the NT by Jesus because it takes on a different observance from the OT. Remember a 'CHANGE was made in the law but it was 'not abolished.
For thousands of years people were TOLD what to do - and couldn't do it. Was there any point in Jesus continuing in the same way ? absolutely not and just a waste of another few thousand years.
So just being TOLD to do something from on high, we have Jesus COME DOWN TO US TO LEAD US BY EXAMPLE !!!
Surely that should produce a better result ? in everybody ? No, seemingly only in those who walked with Him 24/7...the rest who followed Him around only did so for their own reasons - not to be 'discipled/disciplened/taught to become obedient to Him see Heb 5v8,9.
There is no talk of obedience today....only Grace and more Grace the more you sin. Will that ever teach us to STOP sinning and become holy ?

 

[rstrats]

beta,
re: "...'early the first day of the week when Jesus WAS risen....to me that reads PAST tense.

Indeed it does. And the verse plainly says that "...Jesus was risen the first day of the week..."
　


re: "And I did not say that JOHN said anything."

I didn't say that you did. I was merely asking why you quoted my question to
Blik, (who has yet to respond BTW).

 

[rstrats]

JonnTalmid,
re: " If they meet on the first day and Paul was going to leave in the early morning they where meeting on the seventh day and continued on until morning."

I don't understand. Why would they be meeting on the 7th day? The verse says it was the first day.

 

[JohnTalmid]

They meaning there where many people listening to him teach on most assuredly the word of life Yahshua must have taught him. There fore he did not travel on Sabbath which is more evidence to that which is stated in the "renewed covenant", His preaching revealed life in his the sent of Messiahs' very words.

Acts 17:1 (NKJV) Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, Acts 17:3 explaining and demonstrating that the Messiah had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and [saying], "This Yahushua whom I preach to you is the Messiah." Acts 17:4 And some of them were persuaded; and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas.

Luke 4:16 ish too... Shaul reasoning with them with scripture

 

[JohnTalmid]

Now I'm telling you the truth. In love dear one's of Elohim. All of you who have heard the news of the cross. He did have to suffer for you. He still struggles with you. He is quick to dislocate his members. He will vomit you out of his mouth. You will be forced to drink bitterness. You will have the sores of great torment. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in the streets. Don't you see?

If we who say we love testify of Elohim Messiah Yeshua today who has revealed his great love to us who obey him. We may not be perfect. I assure you we are not without sin. We do know better even our sins. Because of Elohim and his word, in Messiah Yeshua our sins are forgiven but they don't threaten us. We don't struggle with that question any more. Now we are more interested in the Love YHWH Elohim has lavished on those who hear his voice.

Shalom shalom I'm doing baptisms in Messiahs name if you want to get right with YHWH Elohim.

John Talmid

 

[Grandpa]

JonnTalmid,
re: " If they meet on the first day and Paul was going to leave in the early morning they where meeting on the seventh day and continued on until morning."

I don't understand. Why would they be meeting on the 7th day? The verse says it was the first day.

They can't see anything but sabbath. They won't see anything but sabbath. Even when its not there they invent it.

 

[Grandpa]

They meaning there where many people listening to him teach on most assuredly the word of life Yahshua must have taught him. There fore he did not travel on Sabbath which is more evidence to that which is stated in the "renewed covenant", His preaching revealed life in his the sent of Messiahs' very words.

Acts 17:1 (NKJV) Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, Acts 17:3 explaining and demonstrating that the Messiah had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and [saying], "This Yahushua whom I preach to you is the Messiah." Acts 17:4 And some of them were persuaded; and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas.

Luke 4:16 ish too... Shaul reasoning with them with scripture

Acts 13:2-5
[FONT=&quot]2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.

It was Pauls ministry given to him by the Holy Spirit to go to the Jews and preach the Lord Jesus Christ.

As for the rest of Christianity?

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

They met on the first day of the week. Most probably because that was the day of the Resurrection.


Did Christianity change the day of the sabbath for the Jews? No. The day of the sabbath for the Jews is still the same.

Did the Lord Jesus give us a whole new meaning for what Rest truly is? Yes, absolutely. It is not a day we keep, as Christians. It is a gift that is given.

None of the Law is kept in a carnal way, by our own strength and understanding, when we abide in Christ. Because we have to choose whether we walk by faith or by our 'understanding' of the law.

Christians are supposed to choose faith. And the law is not of faith.

[/FONT]

 

[garee]

The problem with using new and old covenants is there is not a new covenant. The covenants are renewed not new and old.

Its all about His timming.I would suggest covenants are restored in respect to another time period in respect to reformations


A covnant Those were ceremonial laws as shadows that pointed ahead to a suffering savior and the glory that followed. The veil remains rent. The ceremonial laws were not renewed, but removed (fulfilled) And the government of God was restored to another time period. (the period of Judges). Reformations restore, not renew. Revivals renew.


The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, “imposed on them” until the” time” of reformation. Heb 9:8


That time period was before the Jewish fathers, as a law of the fathers (Elders) rejected God reigning as King. Some did walk by faith like Samuel the judge. This came about because of the Jews (outward of the flesh and not inward as born again) jealously of the surrounding Pagan nations who did have a outward representative so that men could walk by sight and not the faith (unseen) of Chrsit. God gave them over to do what they should not until the “time of the first century reformation”. The types and shadows were longer need the veil is rent.

I would think ignoring that reformation does not mean it did not occur on time. A born again Jew is not one outwardly but one inwardly of the Spirit of Christ.

Light refers to Torah or instruction of God.

Light refers to the Word of God.

Using the word Torah can unknowingly cause a person to trust in the oral laws of the fathers.The oral traditions of men .as commandments thereof. Using the phrase; word of God rather than the word Torah leaves no confusion.

 

[garee]

Shalom shalom I'm doing baptisms in Messiahs name if you want to get right with YHWH Elohim.

Hello goodbye( Shalom shalom)

What kind of baptism are you doing? Get what right with Jesus Chrsit.(YHWH Elohim)?

 

[garee]

1. Originally Pzosted by JohnTalmid

They meaning there where many people listening to him teach on most assuredly the word of life Yahshua must have taught him. There fore he did not travel on Sabbath which is more evidence to that which is stated in the "renewed covenant", His preaching revealed life in his the sent of Messiahs' very words.

Acts 17:1 (NKJV) Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, Acts 17:3 explaining and demonstrating that the Messiah had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and [saying], "This Yahushua whom I preach to you is the Messiah." Acts 17:4 And some of them were persuaded; and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas.

Luke 4:16 ish too... Shaul reasoning with them with scripture

Who did not travel to bring the gospel on a Sabbath?

Who commanded them not travel on Sabbath? Did it come from an oral tradition of the fathers called the Torah to some? The word of God (scripture alone) has no such understanding that they could not travel. .There are other oral traditions of men added to the Sabbath, ceremonial law that do make the word of God without effect. Three kosher meals approved by the Rabi were allowed E.T.C..

 

[JohnTalmid]

Its all about His timming.I would suggest covenants are restored in respect to another time period in respect to reformations


A covnant Those were ceremonial laws as shadows that pointed ahead to a suffering savior and the glory that followed. The veil remains rent. The ceremonial laws were not renewed, but removed (fulfilled) And the government of God was restored to another time period. (the period of Judges). Reformations restore, not renew. Revivals renew.


The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, “imposed on them” until the” time” of reformation. Heb 9:8


That time period was before the Jewish fathers, as a law of the fathers (Elders) rejected God reigning as King. Some did walk by faith like Samuel the judge. This came about because of the Jews (outward of the flesh and not inward as born again) jealously of the surrounding Pagan nations who did have a outward representative so that men could walk by sight and not the faith (unseen) of Chrsit. God gave them over to do what they should not until the “time of the first century reformation”. The types and shadows were longer need the veil is rent.

I would think ignoring that reformation does not mean it did not occur on time. A born again Jew is not one outwardly but one inwardly of the Spirit of Christ.



Light refers to the Word of God.

Using the word Torah can unknowingly cause a person to trust in the oral laws of the fathers.The oral traditions of men .as commandments thereof. Using the phrase; word of God rather than the word Torah leaves no confusion.

How would it cause them to stumble unless they don't study themselves... It is taught and written many places that doctrine of men was too nailed to the cross.

 

[JohnTalmid]

Who did not travel to bring the gospel on a Sabbath?

Who commanded them not travel on Sabbath? Did it come from an oral tradition of the fathers called the Torah to some? The word of God (scripture alone) has no such understanding that they could not travel. .There are other oral traditions of men added to the Sabbath, ceremonial law that do make the word of God without effect. Three kosher meals approved by the Rabi were allowed E.T.C..

As was their custom. They worked or traveled to a town and then reasoned with them on Sabbaths. Not that they didn't on any other days. Why was Abraham credited with rightousness? Because he believed God. In our language believed would be trusted and obeyed. Sabbath is still going to be fulfilled in the thousand year reign of Messiah. Day is like 1000 years and 1000 years like a day. We are going to enter the 7000 year from creation of mankind which if interpretation doesn't fail is a giant Sabbath of sort. So Sabbath is still a shadow and to have a fulfillment in the Kingdom to come. Now the Kingdom of Elohim and of Messiah has opened the door by grace so you may enter into rest and find peace for our souls.

 

[JohnTalmid]

Hello goodbye( Shalom shalom)

What kind of baptism are you doing? Get what right with Jesus Chrsit.(YHWH Elohim)?

In living water and teaching about the Kingdom and the word of YHWH Yahshua the Messiah. To the remission of sin.

 

[psalm6819]

Time for your meds,john