Sabbath Obligation?
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Philip Melanchthon knew:
Philip Melanchthon on Daniel 7:25 -
"... But what meaneth the aungell to saye: He shall s•arle or destroye ye hyghe sayn∣tis? verely els but that with his false doctryne capciouse othes articles / & in∣terrogacions he shall fraudelently de∣ceyue and trappe the simple innocents and shed their blode tyrannously. Also he shall arrogantly take vpon him & thin∣ke to change the state of tymes and la∣wes. He weneth to change ye tyme which with swerde and fyer thinketh to shorten the lyfe of man and to preuent and disa∣point gods infallible eternall and immu∣table prouidēce wherby he hath prefiyed euery manis tyme & houre of deth which as noman can differre or prolong it / so cā∣ne noman shorten nor preuent it / except men will make God an ignorant persone and so consequently no god at all. He chā∣geth the tymes and lawes that any of the [page 118-119] sixe worke dayes commanded of god will make them vnholy and idle dayes when he lyste / or of their owne holy dayes abo∣lisshed / make* worke dayes agen / & when they changed ye Saterday into Sondaye / of eting dayes fasting dayes / of mery and glad dayes to marye in / they can make so∣rowfull dayes forbiddinge maryages. They haue changed gods lawes and tur∣ned them into their owne tradiciōs to be kept aboue Gods preceptis. And as for their owne lawes they will change & bre∣ke them when they lyste. And this powr shal anticrist haue whether it be for long or shorte tyme. For so miche sowneth the Hebrew phrase / which is for a tyme / a lyt∣le whyle / & half a tyme / signifyinge that Anticryst shall make lawes to stande as long and as shorte tyme as he listeth and the tymes will he order / sett and change at his owne plesur. But is it not onely ye office of god to chang tymes and lawes? Here is therfore the prophecye fulfylled of him. Euen to exalt himselfe aboue all thing that god is called. This text. But the hyghe saynts he shall tangle trappe & destroye and arrogantly thinke to chan∣ge the tymes and lawes &c. is of diuerse lerned men diuersely translated. ..." - https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A04696.0001.001/1:11?rgn=div1;view=fulltext
Sylvester knew:Latin:
"... Similiter et feriae a fando dicuntur, ob quam causam Silvester papa primus apud Romanos constituit ut dierum nomina quae antea secundum nomina deorum suorum vocabant, id est, Solis, Lunae, Martis, Mercurii, Veneris, Saturni, feria deinceps vocarent, id est, prima feria, secunda feria, tertia feria, quarta feria, quinta feria, sexta feria, quia in principio Genesis scriptum est quod Deus per singulos dies dixerit : prima, Fiat Lux; secunda, Fiat firmamentum; tertia, Producat terra herbam virentem, similiter, etc. Sabbatum autem antiquo legis vocabulo vocare praecepit, et primam feriam diem Dominicam, eo quod Dominus in illa resurrexit. Statuit autem idem papa ut otium sabbati magis in diem Dominicam transferretur, ut ea die a terrenis operibus ad laudandum Deum vacaremus, justa illud quod scriptum est : Vacate et videte, quoniam ego sum Deus (Psal. XLV). ..." - Beati Rabani Mauri, Fuldensis Abbatis et Moguntini Archiepiscopi, de Clericorum Institutione, ad Heistulphum Archiepiscopum; Libri Tres. (Anno 819.) Ad Fratres Fuldenses Epigramma Ejusdem; Liber Secundus, Caput XLVI. Column 361 (Left; PDF page 35) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....eistulphum_Archiepiscopum_Libri_Tres,_MLT.pdf
Translated English:
"... Pope Sylvester first among the Romans ordered that the names of the days [of the week], which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, [the day] of the Sun, [the day] of the Moon, [the day] of Mars, [the day] of Mercury, [the day] of Jupiter, [the day] of Venus, [the day] of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he [Sylvester] ordered [them] to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, [to call] the first feria the "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose [from the dead], Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day [Sunday], in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God.7 ..." - http://biblelight.net/sylvester-I.htm or http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sylvester-I.htm
The Church Was Established Observing The Sabbath As Clearly Seen In Acts 13:42-44 Below
Acts 13:42-44KJV
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
By all means, provide your scripture that shows Church Order, Preaching was performed on (Sunday)
Waiting?
Asinine comments will get snark in response. I'm not interested in reading your cut-and-paste post as it is not relevant to my point. This is a discussion forum, not a blog.
Then stop making them and there will be none. If you choose to be willingly ignorant (chosing to live without knowledge all because you choose to not watch, read or hear), that is your choice. Your "asinine" (sic), as you called it, "tl;dr" is no real response to the logical evidence I provided against your ignorance (without knowledge) on the so called '613'. Be careful how you treat others, lest you be judged the same.
Zec_7:11 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
Act_7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
I saw this coming: conflating observing Sabbath with observing Sabbath on Sunday. Those are two different topics.
Yes, we are supposed to observe Sabbath. It is one of the Ten Commandments.
No, it doesn't "not count" just because you observed it on Sunday. Those who believe otherwise, I trust you put your life where your mouth is and attended live in-person church services all throughout the Covid crisis.
Okay, so you're quick to make baseless, judgmental comments too. Good to know; thanks for revealing your character so clearly.
https://ia601408.us.archive.org/4/items/bible-pride-i-will-exalt-lucifer/Bible - Pride - I Will Exalt - Lucifer.jpg
Pride refuses to acknowledge it's errors. It claims infallibility, when it is the furthest thing from it.
The word Sabbath is equalivent to Saturday, (The 7th Day)
Sunday is (The 1st Day)
You can't observe the (Sabbath) on the first day of the week.
What evidence do you have for this assertion? Even the Jews don't observe their Sabbath on "Saturday", but from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.
How about you get back to being relevant to the thread topic and stop displaying your struggles to the world.
https://ia601408.us.archive.org/4/items/bible-pride-i-will-exalt-lucifer/Bible - Pride - I Will Exalt - Lucifer.jpg
Pride refuses to acknowledge it's errors. It claims infallibility, when it is the furthest thing from it.
My studies stated that Sunday worship was established by the great grandfather of Noah who declared that the Sun was God. Constantine worshipped this God as well as Jesus. At least he put the sun on the coins that he minted.Jesus is the light, so disregard the commandment to observe the 7th Day Sabbath, and replace it with the pagan sun worshippers (Sunday) that was established by pagan Roman Emperor Constantine in 321AD?
Real Big Smiles!
I understood that pagans always used Sunday as their sabbath.
I also was told that when the gentiles took over the Christian church they replaced the Jewish leadership such as James the brother of Christ, and these gentiles were converted from paganism. They had no knowledge of scripture that was in scrolls and belonged to the Jews. The Jewish leadership were killed in the war of l32 with Rome. That is the reason, as my studies explained it, that anything Jewish is eliminated from the Christian church although Acts tells us that the Jewish Christian church council ruled that gentiles did not have to become Jewish to be accepted in the church. Acts doesn't specify what is scripture and what is Jewish custom, so todays church follows the converted pagan leaders who retained some pagan ideas.
F
Fundamental
Guest
Sorry for my bad English, but is Daniel refering to those worshipping on sunday as the anti christ?
Christians in the east still celebrate sabbath on saturday. It’s hard to ignore how many Egyptian and Roman practices got mixed into western christianity.
The Vatican did christianity no good; Nothing but division and a lot of lost information hidden in some libary no man is allowed to read.
this was also previously discussed -- this text isn't describing a gathering of believers in Christ; Paul & Barnabas were evangelizing unbelievers.
this too was shown early in this thread -- you have already read:
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.
(Acts 20:7)
Daniel, by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, in chapter 7, verse 25, is referring to Papal Rome and that position of the so called 'holy see' (aka: position of pope), that amalgamation of iron and miry clay, that would place itself in Christ's position on earth (where the worship of the Dragon is, see Revelation 12), that would think (by fallen human reasoning) to change God's laws, which it claims to do, here (and all you have to do, is read from left to right, and you can even see three uprooted horns (spiritually speaking) out of Ten):
https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm
Sunday is the Mark of Romanism, but see who else also follows them:
H.F. Thomas, Chancellor Of Cardinal Gibbons:
"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [solemnity of the 7th day Sabbath to Sunday the first day of the week] was her act ... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things."
The Faith of Millions, By the Reverend John A. O'Brien, Ph.D, copyright 1938, Published by Our Sunday Visitor, Huntington, Indian, Pages 397-398,401,403
"The attendance at [Sunday] Mass is the mark of a practical Catholic. ... the worship of God and demands the attendance at Sunday Mass every Catholic worthy of the name."
Dictionary of the Liturgy, Rev. Jovian P. Lang, OFM., Catholic Book Publishing Co., 1989
"Distinctive of the Roman Catholic Church, Sunday Mass observance became a mark of a practicing Catholic."
Even followed by the Greek 'Orthodox':
"... Sunday as a Mark of Christian Unity ...
... In order to fully appreciate Sunday as a mark of Christian unity we must expand our definition of unity." [by Rev. Dr. Demetrios E. Tonias – Dean, Annunciation Greek Orthodox Cathedral of New England] - http://www.ldausa.org/lda/sunday-as-a-mark-of-christian-unity/
Roma again:
•"... Now in the matter of Sabbath observance the Protestant rule of Faith is utterly unable to explain the substitution of the Christian Sunday for the Jewish Saturday. It has been changed. The Bible still teaches that the Sabbath or Saturday should be kept holy. There is no authority in the New Testament for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday. Surely it is an important matter. It stands there in the Bible as one of the Ten Commandments of God. There is no authority in the Bible for abrogating this Commandment, or for transferring its observance to another day of the week. For Catholics it is not the slightest difficulty. "All power is given Me in heaven and on earth; as the Father sent Me so I also send you," said our Divine Lord in giving His tremendous commission to His Apostles. "He that heareth you heareth Me." We have in the authoritative voice of the Church the voice of Christ Himself. The Church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance to Sunday is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God. ..."(1.)
(1.) The Catholic Record of London, Saturday, September 1st, 1923 edition, Ontario, Canada, Volume XLV, #2342, appearing on page 4, section "Sabbath Observance", Column 2, -- Editor -- Rev. James T. Foley, D.D. ... The CATHOLIC RECORD has been approved and recommended by Archbishops Falconio and Sbaretti, late Apostolic Delegates to Canada, the Archbishops of Toronto, Kingston, Ottawa, and St. Boniface, the Bishops of London, Hamilton, Peterborough and Ogdensburg, N.Y., and the Clergy throughout the Dominion.", Column 1 - http://biblelight.net/Sources/Catholic-Record-6-shade.gif or http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/c-record.htm
Furthermore it is said of the so called pope's position:
“All names which in the scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” [Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (Full Italian name: Roberto Francesco Romolo Bellarmino (Canonized-1930 and Doctor of the Church (Jesuit))), Disputationes de Controversiis (aka: Disputationes de Controversiis Christianae Fidei adversus hujus temporis Haereticos) [Lectures Concerning the Controversies of the Christian Faith Against the Heretics of This Time], Tom. 2, “Controversia Prima,” Book 2 (De Conciliorum Auctoritate)[“On Authority of the Councils”], Chapter 17, (1628 ed.) Vol. 1, pp. 266-translated]
In Latin: “Secundo probatur ratione, in Scripturis fundata; nam omnia nomina, quae in Scripturis tribuuntur Christo, unde constat eum esse supra Ecclesiam, eadem omnia tribuuntur Pontifici.” [http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/10800...0015573_21.pdf]
Those names would then include [but not limited to], King of Kings, Lord of Lords, , the Way, The Truth and the Life and even "I AM". You will notice in many official papal documents that the words "Us, We, Our" are captialized from the pope's hand, copying the Bible even from Genesis.
koine Greek - Anti (in the place/room/stead of) Christos (Christ/Anointed)
Latin - Vicarivs (in the place/room/stead of) Christi (Christ/Anointed)
"...anti ... (in the place of...)..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "S"; "Sacrifice"] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13309a.htm
"Vicar (Latin vicarius, from vice, "instead of") ..." - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Vicar
"(Latin Vicarius Christi).
A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "V"; "Vicar of Christ"] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15403b.htm
"...It will be enough, however, to refer to the evidence contained in the epistles of St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, himself a disciple of the Apostles. In these epistles (about A.D. 107) he again and again asserts that the supremacy of the bishop is of Divine institution and belongs to the Apostolic constitution of the Church. He goes so far as to affirm that the bishop stands in the place of Christ Himself. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "C"; "Church"] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm
"The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man…the pope’s excellence and power are not only about heaven, terrestrial and infernal things, but he is also above angels...He is of such great dignity and power that he occupies one and the same tribunal with Christ…the Pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power." [Lucius Ferraris, in “Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica”, article on “Papa, Article II”, titled "Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility"]
"1. Papa tantae est dignitatis et celsitudinis, ut non sit simplex homo, sed quasi Deus, et Dei vicarius
3. Papa idem est se Pater patrum
18. Deveniendo ad Papae auctoritatem, papa est quasi Deus in terra unicus Christi fidelium princeps, regum omnium rex maximus, plenitudinem potestatis continens, cui terreni simul, ac coelestis imperii gubernacula ab omnipotenti Deo credita sunt " - http://books.google.com/books?id=VYwsAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=VYwsAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false [page 1823; internal pagination]
"...Ut sicut Beatus Petrus in terris vicarius Filii Dei fuit constitutus, ita et Pontifices eius successores..." [...as the blessed Peter in the vicar of the Son on God on earth was appointed, so the Pontiffs his successors, and..."] [Prompta Bibliotheca Vol. 6, “Papa”, Article 2; pg 41 [google books pagination] → ] - http://books.google.com/books?id=uJ...&dq="Prompta+Bibliotheca"#v=onepage&q&f=false
V=5
I=1
C=100
A=0
R=0
I=1
V=5
S=0
F=0
I=1
L=50
I=1
I=1
D=500
E=0
I=1
112 [Vicarivs]+53 [Filii]+501 [Dei]=666 [Vicarivs Filii Dei]
•The very numerals themselves in Rev. 13:18 KJB, the “... Six hundred threescore and six.” have a [koine] Greek meaning for each numeral:
–666; chi-xi-stigma χξς:
–χ: the G22nd (agamos ἄγαμος unmarried, unwedded, single),
–ξ: G14th (agathoergeō ἀγαθοεργέω to work good, to do good, to do well, act rightly)
–ς: and an obsolete letter (4742 [stigma, mark, stick, prick] as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the G5th (abba ἀββα Abba = "father") and G6th (Habel Ἅβελ Abel = "vanity (that is: transitory)")), used as numbers” [Strong's Concordance].
•The meaning is “unmarried [single] father [man, calling himself ‘Abba’ (Father God)] who is ‘marked’ [as Cain] by claiming good works [claims good fruits], but all that he does is unlasting vanity [coming to a sudden end; as the fig tree with only pretensious leaves; Mat. 21:19; Mar. 11:13; or as Cain, killeth those like Abel; thinking he doeth God’s service]”. See also Mat. 6:5, 23:5 ; Jhn. 16:2 KJB, etc. The very position of popery, son of perdition, man of sin, Judas, Cain, Lucifer.
"Vicar of Christ (Latin Vicarius Christi). ... thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep."). ... and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is "the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ" (cap. "Licet", 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. "Fundamenta ejus", 17, "De elect.", in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ" [Online Catholic Encyclopedia, Vicar of Christ] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Vicar of Christ
“But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty, ...” [“The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII”, Encyclical Letter June 20, 1894; http://www.space.net.au/~nethow/Sede/encyclicals/Leo13/L13PRAEC.HTM; http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13praec.htm;
"...2. We, indeed, to all men are the Vicar of Christ, the Son of God ..." [Online Catholic Encyclopedia, In Plurimi; On the Abolition of Slavery; His Holiness Pope Leo XIII; May 5, 1888; To the Bishops of Brazil.] - CATHOLIC LIBRARY: In Plurimis (1888) and Leo XIII - In Plurimis
The wouldn't, would they?
Pagans never observed a sabbath, so that is obviously false. Pagans dedicated the first day of the week to the sun god -- Sol, Helios, Apollo, -- but that is totally irrelevant, since pagans also dedicated the last day of the week to the pagan god Saturn, who is far more evil than Helios.
So if we make this the criterion for condemning the first day of the week, it turns out the the last day of the week is even more evil, since it is dedicated to a very evil deity. Today (and for a long time) the pagan names of the day of the week has absolutely no significance, since most of those names belong to Norse gods.
All this nonsense is meant to muddy the waters, since in the Bible the first day of the week (also the 8th day, and called "the morrow after the sabbath") is of great significance to God. Just as on the first day of creation God began His creative work in the natural realm, on the eighth day God began His redemptive work through Christ by raising Him from the dead. Thus the Feast of First Fruits and the Feast of Pentecost belong to the first day of the week. Christians should use the term "the Lord's Day" for the Christian sabbath, even while unbelieving Jews (and SDAs) observe the 7th day as their sabbath.
The context of a day in judaisms observation is sundown to sundown.
When the sundown occurs on the western
I agree, the what is called the (Church?) today, is largely an extension of Roman Catholicism, and it's continuation of pagan traditions.
Pagan Easter, Christmas, Sunday Observance,
The reason I mentioned Emperor Constatine in 321 AD, is that he mandated by Roman (Law) the observance of (Sunday)