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Hi @Snacks.
I have this thread for you to contemplate.
https://christianchat.com/threads/the-doctrine-of-entire-sanctification.202171/unread
This also:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-meaning-of-mature.202005/
I have this thread for you to contemplate.
https://christianchat.com/threads/the-doctrine-of-entire-sanctification.202171/unread
This also:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-meaning-of-mature.202005/
Thanks for sharing the thread. I read the entire eleven pages and refer you to your own words found in post 128 acknowledging to another member you will simply agree to disagree and keep one another lifted in prayer.
S
SophieT
Guest
Yes, and I will pray for you also...
@Charlie24 and I actually have a background in which we have spoken to one another and also agree on a number of things. The issue at hand was not worth arguing over any further since I believe that @Charlie24 will come around to the knowledge of the truth in due process of time. I hope that you read past post #128 because I think that the whole of the conversation is important.
I hope that you will also consider every scripture that I have presented and study them out so that you have a working knowledge of my doctrine on the matter.
I think that Titus 2:14-15 is also an important scripture on the matter.; as well as Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:6 w/ 1 John 2:17; and 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6.
sinlessness anyone?
oh wait
the Bible doesn't teach that
Right...it doesn't teach sinlessness (1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15, Romans 7:18)....
However, it does teach perfection (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv))...which I think is what you mean by sinlessness...
In that the element of sin, dwelling within us, can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any authority over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).
For that we are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT))...
And therefore sin is not inevitable (for the idea that it is, is false doctrine and heresy)...
Which means that we can walk in consistent freedom and victory, not after the flesh but after the Spirit, for an extended period of time; even for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75).
Sinlessness would have to do with the element of sin being eradicated from your life.
Perfection would have to do with sin being practically removed from your behaviour.
S
SophieT
Guest
are you perfect? I certainly, in my flesh, am not perfect
there is perfection in only One and if we are born again, we share that perfection with Him, IN OUR SPIRITS
we are not what we shall be, but one day we will know even as we are now known
I do not believe anyone who tries to convince others they walk perfectly. it is not true and the Bible does not support such an understanding
S
SophieT
Guest
as for Romans 6:14,
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
why does sin no longer have dominion over us with death as the consequence of that dominion?
it is because we are no longer under the law...it no longer applies to us...believers are not under what?
GRACE!!!
grace:
unmerited favor/extended forgiveness from God for our sins because of Jesus dying in our place and so on
this is not sin no longer having its way with us. this, rather, is God dealing with us as though we no longer sin. In Christ we are sinless...obviously not our flesh...but the part, our spirits, that is now a part of the body of Christ...this may be getting a little complicated but suffice it to say, as Paul states, nothing good dwells in our flesh, but we are now become a new creation in Christ
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
why does sin no longer have dominion over us with death as the consequence of that dominion?
it is because we are no longer under the law...it no longer applies to us...believers are not under what?
GRACE!!!
grace:
unmerited favor/extended forgiveness from God for our sins because of Jesus dying in our place and so on
this is not sin no longer having its way with us. this, rather, is God dealing with us as though we no longer sin. In Christ we are sinless...obviously not our flesh...but the part, our spirits, that is now a part of the body of Christ...this may be getting a little complicated but suffice it to say, as Paul states, nothing good dwells in our flesh, but we are now become a new creation in Christ
S
SophieT
Guest
stop with the x's already
I can x too and you have way more posts just begging for an x so quit it
we already know we do not agree
the Bible does not teach sinlessness and you cannot prove that it does because it doesn't
no amount of verse mashup is going to teach that
I can x too and you have way more posts just begging for an x so quit it
we already know we do not agree
the Bible does not teach sinlessness and you cannot prove that it does because it doesn't
no amount of verse mashup is going to teach that
Any time that I am walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in me (Romans 8:4); that is, I am walking perfectly.
And while I do not claim to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit 24/7, I do believe that it is possible to do so.
If I claimed that I did so, I believe that I would be disqualifying myself from perfection; for Paul wrote that, as many as be perfect, let them have this attitude, that "I have room to grow" (Philippians 3:12-15, esp. v.15).
So, the fact that I do not claim to be perfect indicates that I may indeed be perfect.
Job said this,
Job 9:20, If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
Job 9:21, Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
Job 9:22, This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
And Paul wrote this,
1Co 4:3, But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4, For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
It follows that if we walk in the light as He is in the light, He will pinpoint to us our sins so that we can confess them unto sanctification (1 John 1:7-9) and that when He is not pinpointing our sins to us it is even possible that we have been made perfect in those moments; however if anyone is truly perfect, they have the attitude that they have not been perfected but that it is their goal to press on towards the holiness of the Lord.
You have "x'd" me on not a few occasions...stop with the x's already
I can x too and you have way more posts just begging for an x so quit it
we already know we do not agree
the Bible does not teach sinlessness and you cannot prove that it does because it doesn't
no amount of verse mashup is going to teach that
When it hits you, you don't like it very much, do you?
And of course the point is that if we are not under the law but under grace, sin shall not any longer have any dominion over us...
And that indicates a walk of perfection (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)).
Sounds like gnosticism to me.
I would contend that when we sin with our flesh, we sin also with our spirit; in rejection of gnostic theology.
S
SophieT
Guest
I might do so again. actually, I am not keeping track. sorry that you are though
I really do not care who x's, but at least have a reason to do so. we already know we disagree
in fact, you are posting in a thread that had an entirely different intent than what you care to discuss and apparently, that does not discourage you from hijacking it anyway...you and several others
S
SophieT
Guest
we do not sin with our spirit...that is a grave error and I saw you having that conversation with Jocund in your other thread
he also corrected you
we do not sin with our spirits and you do not seem to understand what Gnosticism is so I will explain it for you
Gnosticism is the opposite of what you say above. it is the belief we can sin all we want to in the flesh because our spirits are still pure. The Gnostics got the message that our spirits are in Christ, but they did not understand that deliberate sin is thumbing your nose at God
S
SophieT
Guest
sin has no dominion over us because God made a way for us to have forgiveness of our sins. perfection is impossible for a human being
God is Spirit and to know Him and worship Him we must do so with our spirits
Sin no longer has dominion over us because we have passed from death to life through our faith in Christ.
We are told in 2 Corinthians 7:1 to perfect holiness in the fear of the Lord by cleansing ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit....
Which means that filthiness of spirit is not out of the question...
And that if it can be cleansed from us, that so can filthiness of the flesh be cleansed from us.
Yes; even in the practical sense for those of us who have been redeemed (Titus 2:14).