After you are saved Scripture calls you a saint. God makes a clear distinction.
Revival @ Asbury?
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1 John 1:8-10~ If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His Word is not in us.
Remember Jonah and Nineveh… It was a revival that happen in Nineveh after Jonah finally warned them to repent or be destroyed.
This was God having mercy on the enemy of Israel.
Remember, while we were sinners Christ died for us. When it comes to revival, God is seeking His lost sheep AND the lost sinner.
During revival, God is very compassionate and meek and easily entreated…it is the humble and yearning cry of our hearts that gets God’s attention and willingness to revive us.
A Word from God goes forth with the Holy Spirit giving grace to the hearers to understand and depending on the hearers response to God’s Word is how God will then “act” or “manifest”….
On February 8, 2023, the Word from God went forth with His Holy Spirit which was basically… “people need to know God’s Love before they can love others and themselves.”
Twenty college students lingered and stayed in Chapel after others left…they stayed and prayed…. the “Fire of God’s Love” was being kindled… they were sacrificing their time from social media and other things to seek God… by the next day, students entered Chapel and repentance broke out because they were encountering the Presence of God’s Love for them.
Remember what God promised…
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways;
then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Chr.7.14,2Chr.7.15&version=KJV
I absolutely loooove what God has done at the Asbury Revival… it is The Lord.
This was God having mercy on the enemy of Israel.
Remember, while we were sinners Christ died for us. When it comes to revival, God is seeking His lost sheep AND the lost sinner.
During revival, God is very compassionate and meek and easily entreated…it is the humble and yearning cry of our hearts that gets God’s attention and willingness to revive us.
A Word from God goes forth with the Holy Spirit giving grace to the hearers to understand and depending on the hearers response to God’s Word is how God will then “act” or “manifest”….
On February 8, 2023, the Word from God went forth with His Holy Spirit which was basically… “people need to know God’s Love before they can love others and themselves.”
Twenty college students lingered and stayed in Chapel after others left…they stayed and prayed…. the “Fire of God’s Love” was being kindled… they were sacrificing their time from social media and other things to seek God… by the next day, students entered Chapel and repentance broke out because they were encountering the Presence of God’s Love for them.
Remember what God promised…
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways;
then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Chr.7.14,2Chr.7.15&version=KJV
I absolutely loooove what God has done at the Asbury Revival… it is The Lord.
In doing research on the cultural context of the 1st century, in trying to understand the difference between pre-marriage relationships then, and the idea of dating today; I came across an interesting article. So many were arranged marriages in that day, in comparison to romanticized dating today. In research I came across an article that seems to help clarify Paul's writing on the sodomites of his day. I quote the article... I put this reply in this thread since the topic came up.
From the Greek philosopher Dio Chrysostom (40-110 AD) in The Seventh or Euboean Discourse
Phrasing lifted from text numbered 133 through 152
"In dealing with brothel-keepers and their trade we must certainly betray no weakness as though something were to be said on both sides, but must sternly forbid them...Such men bring individuals together in union without love and intercourse without affection, and all for the sake of filthy lucre...For evils are never wont to remain as they are; they are ever active and advancing to greater wantonness if they meet no compelling check...Indeed, beginning with practices and habits that seem trivial and allowable, it acquires a strength and force that are uncontrollable, and no longer stops at anything...Now at this point we must assuredly remember that this adultery committed with outcasts, so evident in our midst and becoming so brazen and unchecked, is to a very great extent paving the way to hidden and secret assaults upon the chastity of women and boys of good family...The man whose appetite is insatiate in such things, when he finds there is no scarcity, no resistance, in this field, will have contempt for the easy conquest and scorn for a woman's love, as a thing too readily given — in fact, too utterly feminine — and will turn his assault against the male quarters, eager to befoul the youth who will very soon be magistrates and judges and generals, believing that in them he will find a kind of pleasure difficult and hard to procure. His state is like that of men who are addicted to drinking and wine-bibbing, who after long and steady drinking of unmixed wine, often lose their taste for it and create an artificial thirst by the stimulus of sweatings, salted foods, and condiments."
http://demonax.info/doku.php?id=text:dio_chrysostom_orations_1-20#the_seventh_or_euboean_discourse
That reads to me in parallel with Romans 1:24-27 and it sounds like prostitution progressing into sodomy if we use standard definitions from today's dictionaries and various thesauruses. When I write "standard definitions" I am meaning standard language rather than that from the 'fundamentalist' crowd who ignorantly use the words homosexual and sodomite interchangeably.
It is interesting that the NRSV Updated Edition 2021 has the following text note on 1 Cor. 6:9 -
a. 6.9 Meaning of Gk uncertain (about malakos)
b. 6.9 Meaning of Gk uncertain (about arsenokoites)
Another surprising change made in the NRSVue is on Romans 3:22 where the Updated Edition went back to the KJV "through the faith of Jesus Christ" and put "through faith in Jesus Christ" in the margin.
They stayed with "faith" instead of making it "the faithfulness of Jesus Christ". I've always considered "faith of" here to "the faith" in Jude 3.
From the Greek philosopher Dio Chrysostom (40-110 AD) in The Seventh or Euboean Discourse
Phrasing lifted from text numbered 133 through 152
"In dealing with brothel-keepers and their trade we must certainly betray no weakness as though something were to be said on both sides, but must sternly forbid them...Such men bring individuals together in union without love and intercourse without affection, and all for the sake of filthy lucre...For evils are never wont to remain as they are; they are ever active and advancing to greater wantonness if they meet no compelling check...Indeed, beginning with practices and habits that seem trivial and allowable, it acquires a strength and force that are uncontrollable, and no longer stops at anything...Now at this point we must assuredly remember that this adultery committed with outcasts, so evident in our midst and becoming so brazen and unchecked, is to a very great extent paving the way to hidden and secret assaults upon the chastity of women and boys of good family...The man whose appetite is insatiate in such things, when he finds there is no scarcity, no resistance, in this field, will have contempt for the easy conquest and scorn for a woman's love, as a thing too readily given — in fact, too utterly feminine — and will turn his assault against the male quarters, eager to befoul the youth who will very soon be magistrates and judges and generals, believing that in them he will find a kind of pleasure difficult and hard to procure. His state is like that of men who are addicted to drinking and wine-bibbing, who after long and steady drinking of unmixed wine, often lose their taste for it and create an artificial thirst by the stimulus of sweatings, salted foods, and condiments."
http://demonax.info/doku.php?id=text:dio_chrysostom_orations_1-20#the_seventh_or_euboean_discourse
That reads to me in parallel with Romans 1:24-27 and it sounds like prostitution progressing into sodomy if we use standard definitions from today's dictionaries and various thesauruses. When I write "standard definitions" I am meaning standard language rather than that from the 'fundamentalist' crowd who ignorantly use the words homosexual and sodomite interchangeably.
It is interesting that the NRSV Updated Edition 2021 has the following text note on 1 Cor. 6:9 -
a. 6.9 Meaning of Gk uncertain (about malakos)
b. 6.9 Meaning of Gk uncertain (about arsenokoites)
Another surprising change made in the NRSVue is on Romans 3:22 where the Updated Edition went back to the KJV "through the faith of Jesus Christ" and put "through faith in Jesus Christ" in the margin.
They stayed with "faith" instead of making it "the faithfulness of Jesus Christ". I've always considered "faith of" here to "the faith" in Jude 3.
Yeah, those dummies. smh Where did sodomy first become a word? Sodom was where? What happened there? Let's not play dances with words here. Sodomy is another Biblical word for homosexuality. You can read it right there in the Bible.
N
Niki7
Guest
Well actually, if we are forgiven by Christ, if we have repented, then we are no longer the sinners the Bible refers to. We have a new life in Christ, our spirits are renewed and we do not identify with sinners or sin. While this does not mean we will never sin again, it does mean that we are a new creation in Christ and God our Father does not see us as the sinners we once were.
Paul refers to those in Christ, when considering their past lives, as something they once were...no longer are.
Not the sinners we once were but still prone to sin, and therefore sinners.
If "the church" wishes to keep sinners out of their meeting places, they will be empty.
N
Niki7
Guest
I'm not sure why you seem to think we should measure current relationships with Christ by what you say you experienced back 'when'
You really do not know and I have not said, what my experience is or has been. You are assuming quite a bit here. Good to know that you do not mean me disrespect. I do not mean you disrespect either. But you seem to indicate that what happened in the past, is the gold standard for what should happen today. I would disagree with that and longing for the past won't bring it back anyway.
N
Niki7
Guest
Well sure. I already said that we still sin. No one said sinners should be kept out of church. I don't think you are making the case for that sort of thing and certainly no one has said that. In fact, Jesus said He came to bring sinners to repentance. That's the good news!
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.” Mark 2:17
N
Niki7
Guest
I agree with this. However the other element is what is alarming as so many seem to think that if you are in church, it's all good and discernment is missing. But I agree with what you say here about the genuine also occurring.
Perhaps you did not see the beginning of this conversation where one claimed this revival (had) unrepentant
gay students, even though the commentator of the video identified them as celibate homosexuals? Whatever
point you and N6 keep trying to make completely overlooks this salient fact, which is what I was addressing.
N
Niki7
Guest
Sorry, but glorifying homosexuality and the 'Isaiah' person stating he has another twitter account and saying he was scared to 'come out' is not a Christian testimony.
I come out as a Christian. When says the have come out as homosexual, perhaps we should just believe them.
I'm not having a back and forth with you. This "Isaiah" person also said the church has many homosexuals in it but people just do not know that. The 'church' actually has many unrepentant sinners in it both homosexual and heterosexual. This is a fact.
Enjoy your day.
Nobody knows there are homosexuals in church? Wow. People have been making quite a hullabalooo about
gays in the church for quite some time. If they are celibate I hardly see that as glorifying homosexuality.
God is the Same yesterday, today, and forever.
God tends to replicate the past in many many things what He did in the past and will do like in the future.
If you actually ever read the Holy Word of God...you would know that the Body of Christ uses Prophecies to help guide them.
These are things that not just happened in the past, but was both Prophesied for that day and time plus another future event that would take place in the AGE called Last Days.
So yes, God won't be changing for you or anyone.
We change for Him.
He never CHANGES!
Homosexuality isn't just the act though. It's also what's in the person's heart and mind. Lusting and being attracted to the same sex are sins of the heart and mind. They start there. It's nice that they're celibate, but they have to submit their minds and hearts to the Lord as well. If they do that, they can be completely set free of homosexuality.
As a matter of fact, any besetting sin can be conquered this way too, like heterosexual sins for example.
God said He gave homosexual and sissie effeminate men a REPROBATE MIND.
So it's not a matter of Nature because these people are choosing to be this way and God has given them a mind that is foul and allows them to think what they're doing is normal.
Letting people know what your orientation was before being saved is not necessarily wrong, especially when
you are targeting a specific group in evangelism to let them know it can be overcome. Celibacy looks like
repentance to me if they are abstaining specifically because of what the Bible has to say. A repentant
heterosexual does not become something other than hetero oriented after repenting of their sexual sins.
That is all -
- I am off now... have a good day! -
Celibate, not celibate, doesn't matter. If someone says I'm a homosexual but I'm celibate because I'm a Christian, what they're really saying is: Being homosexual is legit but if you're a Christian you shouldn't act on your desires; that's what Roman Catholics teach. But what does that mean? Does it mean marriage between homosexuals is oaky? If you're a homosexual and you want to get saved you must repent of your homosexuality, not just its expression.
If any of them desires to repent and come to the Lord, He is powerful enough to deliver them from this besetting sin. I've read and saw video testimonies of quite a few accounts of this happening. Their changed lives testifies to how powerful and merciful God is!
So if you come across any of them, especially at church, pray for them. Quite possible that some of them may turn to the Lord and let Him change them. If they don't, God of course will have to send them to Hell, but at least you did your part.
Letting people know what your orientation was before being saved is not necessarily wrong, especially when
you are targeting a specific group in evangelism to let them know it can be overcome. Celibacy looks like
repentance to me if they are abstaining specifically because of what the Bible has to say. A repentant
heterosexual does not become something other than hetero oriented after repenting of their sexual sins.
That is all -
You too, have a great day!