Revelation 16:20 & Revelation 6:14 - Islands shaken twice?

[Hakawaka]

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. - Rev 6:14

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. - Rev 16:20

The language is similar, but one is the last bowl, the other is the 6th seal. What do you guys think? Referring to same event or a different event? If its a literal event how could this happen twice?

 

[Omegatime]

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. - Rev 6:14

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. - Rev 16:20

The language is similar, but one is the last bowl, the other is the 6th seal. What do you guys think? Referring to same event or a different event? If its a literal event how could this happen twice?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has to be a different event. Violence upon the earth. Reminds me of a scripture about Peleg.

One was named Peleg, because in his time the earth was divided

and bingo--the ring of fire

 

[IXOYE81]

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. - Rev 6:14

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. - Rev 16:20

The language is similar, but one is the last bowl, the other is the 6th seal. What do you guys think? Referring to same event or a different event? If its a literal event how could this happen twice?

THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT EVENTS:

Rev 6:14. This event takes place at the beginning of God's wrath, some time after the midpoint of the 7-year period, which began in Rev 6:12 with the great earthquake, which moved every mountain and island out of their places.

Rev 16:20. This event takes place during the Seventh Bowl Judgment near the end of God's wrath, but in this event every island fled away and the mountains completely disappeared. This event is way worse than the event in Rev 6:14.

 

[greenonions]

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. - Rev 6:14

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. - Rev 16:20

The language is similar, but one is the last bowl, the other is the 6th seal. What do you guys think? Referring to same event or a different event? If its a literal event how could this happen twice?

Same event. Rev. 6:14 is a early preview of Jesus' second coming. Rev. 6:16 says the Lamb's throne and face are visible. Also, stars falling and mountains and islands moving (6:13-14) cannot happen before Rev. 7:2-3, or else the angel's call not to harm the earth yet is meaningless.

 

[Hakawaka]

Revelation 19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

Revelation 22:8-9 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”

These are another similar occasion. I find it hard to believe John would make the same mistake twice, and be rebuked for it twice. Clearly this is referring to the same event. Works as a sort of a "book end" since the original did not have chapters and verses. I believe John does this to help us know what is reflection and what is chronological progression.

 

[Adstar]

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. - Rev 6:14

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. - Rev 16:20

The language is similar, but one is the last bowl, the other is the 6th seal. What do you guys think? Referring to same event or a different event? If its a literal event how could this happen twice?

I believe they are depicting different effects of the same event.. Or to put it in another way.. Events triggered by the same event.. I believe the even is a large Meteor striking the earth in one of the sea's or maybe an ocean.. The impact will cause a huge mushroom cloud that will spread out over the earth and will appear from the ground as the sky rolling up as a scroll. I believe the impact will trigger the largest earthquake in recorded history that will cause every mountain and every island to be moved out of their place..

I also believe that this impact will also create a very large tsunami as Jesus said about that time:::

(Luke 21:25) "¶ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;"

 

[homwardbound]

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. - Rev 6:14

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. - Rev 16:20

The language is similar, but one is the last bowl, the other is the 6th seal. What do you guys think? Referring to same event or a different event? If its a literal event how could this happen twice?

The mysterious ways of God, that no person can figure out, what you ask might be, and might not be
However, evil could not figure out what getting rid of Son would accomplish. If Evil knew would it have ever encouraged the death of Son to get rid of Son. Who won in the resurrection? Made an open spectacle as in Col 2 reveals, to me anyways, thanks for being you

 

[greenonions]

Revelation 19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

Revelation 22:8-9 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”

These are another similar occasion. I find it hard to believe John would make the same mistake twice, and be rebuked for it twice. Clearly this is referring to the same event. Works as a sort of a "book end" since the original did not have chapters and verses. I believe John does this to help us know what is reflection and what is chronological progression.

On this point I disagree. In these two occasions, the angel has revealed two different things: 1) announcement of the marriage supper 2) a vision of the Holy City. The context is also different: 1) is before Jesus comes down to the earth 2) is after seeing the Holy City come down from heaven.

One example of another Bible character making the same mistake twice, even after being rebuked, is Abraham lying about his wife/sister (Gen. 12:13; 20:2). So it is possible that John made the same mistake twice too.

 

[IXOYE81]

On this point I disagree. In these two occasions, the angel has revealed two different things: 1) announcement of the marriage supper 2) a vision of the Holy City. The context is also different: 1) is before Jesus comes down to the earth 2) is after seeing the Holy City come down from heaven.

One example of another Bible character making the same mistake twice, even after being rebuked, is Abraham lying about his wife/sister (Gen. 12:13; 20:2). So it is possible that John made the same mistake twice too.

Good question! The most common interpretation to these two passages is that John is overwhelmed at each of these visions and bows down even after he was told previously not to do this.

 

[GaryA]

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. - Rev 6:14

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. - Rev 16:20

The language is similar, but one is the last bowl, the other is the 6th seal. What do you guys think? Referring to same event or a different event? If its a literal event how could this happen twice?

I believe both verses are referring to the same event.

All that is described in the 6th seal verses does not happen together at a singular point in time; rather, the span of time that covers all of what is described runs from Trumpet 1 to Vial 7.

For an illustration of this, please see: http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Order_Of_Events.html

Not everything in Revelation is in chronological order - and, there are overlaps in places. This is one of those places.

 

[Hakawaka]

I believe both verses are referring to the same event.

All that is described in the 6th seal verses does not happen together at a singular point in time; rather, the span of time that covers all of what is described runs from Trumpet 1 to Vial 7.

For an illustration of this, please see: http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Order_Of_Events.html

Not everything in Revelation is in chronological order - and, there are overlaps in places. This is one of those places.

The real question is what Linux distro do you use I see you have a linux penguin logo?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. - Rev 6:14

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. - Rev 16:20

The language is similar, but one is the last bowl, the other is the 6th seal. What do you guys think? Referring to same event or a different event? If its a literal event how could this happen twice?

“And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD. I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring thy destruction among the nations, into the countries which thou hast not known.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭32:7

“Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; a day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array. The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: and the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?”
‭‭Joel‬ ‭2:1-5, 10-11‬ ‭

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, And signs in the earth beneath; Blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before that great and notable Day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:16-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake;

and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6:12-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Remember each testament needs to be fulfilled so those prophecies in the ot many of those were being fulfilled in the generation of Jesus

It’s worth considering that revelation is not a linear and successive timeline of events , but a prophetic narrative corresponding with scriptures beforhand

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31, 34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Hakawaka]

“And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD. I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring thy destruction among the nations, into the countries which thou hast not known.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭32:7

“Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; a day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array. The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: and the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?”
‭‭Joel‬ ‭2:1-5, 10-11‬ ‭

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, And signs in the earth beneath; Blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before that great and notable Day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:16-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake;

and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6:12-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Remember each testament needs to be fulfilled so those prophecies in the ot many of those were being fulfilled in the generation of Jesus

It’s worth considering that revelation is not a linear and successive timeline of events , but a prophetic narrative corresponding with scriptures beforhand

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31, 34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You think Jesus already returned? Not true!
Or am I misunderstanding your application of this generation ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You think Jesus already returned? Not true!
Or am I misunderstanding your application of this generation ?

…..I’m saying the quote you posted from revelation this one

“And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

doesnt stand alone as a mystery to be solved independently of the prophets it’s part of the prophetic events foretold all along , being shown to John in his heavenly vision.

The point of what I’m saying is for study purposes You can learn a lot more about that set of verses that Margery being shown to John regarding the sixth seal. … by reading the prophecies it is originally foretold in

This is what John is seeing

“And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.”

now consider that Jesus had said all things that were written would be fulfilled on that generetion ( the gospels and epistles hadn’t yet been written bit the ot prophets had been ) so what I’m saying is read this prophecy when you have time that this comes from

And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD. I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring thy destruction among the nations, into the countries which thou hast not known.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭32:7

And this one that thisnis from

Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; a day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array. The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: and the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?”
‭‭Joel‬ ‭2:1-5, 10-11‬ ‭

and some others and things Jesus was foretelling would happen in his generation like what I quoted or this which is contemporary to those same sermons of Jesus

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remembering the prophets and law had been written and was to be fulfilled the epistles and gospels hadn’t yet been written but would later at the end be fulfilled but my point is each testement has to be fulfilled

revelation is partly about the ot being fulfilled in Jesus generation but it also foretells the end of the world and Jesus second coming that’s promised in the New Testament and hasn’t yet been fulfilled. But the ot was being fulfilled for instance Joel two Peter when the men began to mock them at pentocost tells us “ nope ……this is what Joel prophecied “

“But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judæa, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

And I will shew wonders in heaven above, And signs in the earth beneath; Blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before that great and notable Day of the Lord come:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:14-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The event that you quoted is a subject in many prophecies and gospel teachings and even some of the apostles writings and sermons in acts there is all I was saying . I wasn’t aware of you realized johns seeing a vision but the subject matter is in prophecy beforhand that Gods been speaking in part and figure all along

Even more probably too much but you know how the sun is darkened , the moon is turned to blood , and the stars fall from thier place in the heavens ? Israel in Joseph’s dream and in other prophecy is shown as the sun , the moon and the twelve stars . In my own view it’s about Israel’s destruction and saving of the remnant that vision I mean the fulfillment of the ot curses for breaking throne covenant rome surrounded besieged and destroyed Jerusalem in ad 70 at the end of Jesus generetion

 

[Johnjunior]

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. - Rev 6:14

And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. - Rev 16:20

The language is similar, but one is the last bowl, the other is the 6th seal. What do you guys think? Referring to same event or a different event? If its a literal event how could this happen twice?

Same event. All prophets and Apostles are writing about one event that will occur.
Joel 2: 10

10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Zechariah 14: 1, 4 - 5
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Literally all the prophets are seeing the same thing but no one is concerned about it. One more
Habakkuk 3: 1 - 2, 6
1 A prayer of Habakkuk the prophet upon Shigionoth.

2 O Lord, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O Lord, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy.

6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

All these guys were scared too. LORD about to invade this Earth with the Saints from the 1st resurrection read verse 16 in Habakkuk 3. It's one event and it's a terrible event. Jesus already fulfilled everything concerning his 1st coming and his 2nd coming ain't going to be anything nice. Sweet Jesus about to fill the places with dead bodies when he comes back.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Same event. All prophets and Apostles are writing about one event that will occur.
Joel 2: 10

10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Zechariah 14: 1, 4 - 5
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Literally all the prophets are seeing the same thing but no one is concerned about it. One more
Habakkuk 3: 1 - 2, 6
1 A prayer of Habakkuk the prophet upon Shigionoth.

2 O Lord, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O Lord, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy.

6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

All these guys were scared too. LORD about to invade this Earth with the Saints from the 1st resurrection read verse 16 in Habakkuk 3. It's one event and it's a terrible event. Jesus already fulfilled everything concerning his 1st coming and his 2nd coming ain't going to be anything nice. Sweet Jesus about to fill the places with dead bodies when he comes back.

Good post.

Promised to israel the people of the old covenant when the messiah would come

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, and shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

fulfilled when the messiah came

“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:51-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The ot has promises and prophecies made to only israel the nation that would be fulfilled when the messiah was born and came to them

But the New Testament has its own promises and prophecies for all creation who are the subjects of the New Testament. Each testement has its own prophetic line of events that are fulfilled or are to be fulfilled.

Each testament for instance held a promise of a resurrection one for Israel when the nessih came and another for all people when the messiah returns …

though the ot was a pattern of the new they are seperate covenants and each must be fulfilled according to the word of each covenant Moses and the prophets words in the ot and then Jesus and the apostles words in the new

This resurrection happens at the end

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The one promised to Israel already had been as we see

the prophecy

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,”

the fulfillment about seven hundred years later when the messiah had come and made himself known to them

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

Each testament holds its own prophetic line of events

 

[Johnjunior]

Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, and shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This one ain't fulfilled yet it gets fulfilled when Jesus comes back. Israel is still scattered, Remember the 9 tribes got scattered by the Assyrians, that's why when Jesus came he said don't go into the cities of Samaria because the people there were not Israelites. That's why Jews wanted to make Jesus king so that he would fulfill this scripture.

The ot has promises and prophecies made to only israel the nation that would be fulfilled when the messiah was born and came to them

It's true that LORD made promises to Israel, but GOD is only using Israel as his priest. GOD is trying to save every nation on this Earth. (Whosever will let him come. That's why he told Abraham "In thy Seed shall the nations of the Earth be blessed". Jesus died for everyone sins and Israel is still the priest and most of Israel are spiritually dead. That's why Paul wrote that GOD has not cast them away that will not happen. GOD's calling is without repentance.
Romans 11: 1 - 5
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
(See Paul was an Israelite, he was the apostle to the gentiles. The very fact that Rome is now teaching Christianity and not Israelites is the reason for all the foul doctrines we have today, funny because Paul literally told the Romans NOT to do this and now Vatican City and the Pope running the show, everyone going to be celebrating Christmas on 25th day of December)
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Even to this current time GOD got his priest who are awake and teaching his truth precept upon precept. Again, GOD does not change his mind he does not operate like man.

This resurrection happens at the end

That is true according to what is written.

Each testament for instance held a promise of a resurrection one for Israel when the nessih came and another for all people when the messiah returns …

Well the bible does not agree with that. Paul and all the apostles are still dead, so is Moses and all the prophets. No one comes out the grave until the 7th trumpet blow according to scripture.

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,”

He is talking about the spiritual dead.
Read Ezekiel 37. Israel will be blind until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled.
Romans 11: 7, 25
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This one ain't fulfilled yet it gets fulfilled when Jesus comes back. Israel is still scattered, Remember the 9 tribes got scattered by the Assyrians, that's why when Jesus came he said don't go into the cities of Samaria because the people there were not Israelites. That's why Jews wanted to make Jesus king so that he would fulfill this scripture.

It's true that LORD made promises to Israel, but GOD is only using Israel as his priest. GOD is trying to save every nation on this Earth. (Whosever will let him come. That's why he told Abraham "In thy Seed shall the nations of the Earth be blessed". Jesus died for everyone sins and Israel is still the priest and most of Israel are spiritually dead. That's why Paul wrote that GOD has not cast them away that will not happen. GOD's calling is without repentance.
Romans 11: 1 - 5
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
(See Paul was an Israelite, he was the apostle to the gentiles. The very fact that Rome is now teaching Christianity and not Israelites is the reason for all the foul doctrines we have today, funny because Paul literally told the Romans NOT to do this and now Vatican City and the Pope running the show, everyone going to be celebrating Christmas on 25th day of December)
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Even to this current time GOD got his priest who are awake and teaching his truth precept upon precept. Again, GOD does not change his mind he does not operate like man.

That is true according to what is written.

Well the bible does not agree with that. Paul and all the apostles are still dead, so is Moses and all the prophets. No one comes out the grave until the 7th trumpet blow according to scripture.

He is talking about the spiritual dead.
Read Ezekiel 37. Israel will be blind until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled.
Romans 11: 7, 25
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

“This one ain't fulfilled yet it gets fulfilled when Jesus comes back. Israel is still scattered, “

your saying this hasn’t happened yet ?

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or are you saying this from about 700 or so yes before has nothing to do with that ?

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12-

prophecy is simple it’s just God telling people beforehand what he’ll do later so when he does it they will believe

There’s a new covenant with all new promises to all new people

“Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this hasn’t happened yet

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The resurrection promised to the saints in the ot has already happened the one in the nt about Jesus second coming from heaven hasn’t yet happened