If I die before Rapture, my Body will be Resurrected and Transformed, my Spirit will be Present with God till then. I don't really have a Problem with Death, but I don't really want to go through it. Lazarus didn't want to do it again. He asked Jesus "Will I Have To Die Again"? Jesus said "Yes" it says Lazarus was real Bummed Out about Dying again. I don't know why. Test of Faith Maybe?
Resurrection
- Thread starter Lanolin
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The greatest test. Will I trust a God not seen who claims he can be known as it is written as a law of His faith he works in us.?
I would think our new born again spirit and soul will be resurrected from the dead asleep . Like with Lazarus God will simply say rise receiver your new eternal bodies. We have I beleive in that sense passed from eternal death to eternal new spirit life. Jesus of his own free will gave up the Holy Spirit .
Our newly created(Not reconditioned ,like all the cars I had lol)) like the first creation it was not made of the things seen as rudiments of this corrupted heaven and earth. But the unseen spiritual things of God. The earthen bodies of death will not be born again of flesh and blood. (reincarnation) .The new created bodies will not be of flesh and blood it can never enter the new order We simply do not know the Spirit of holiness after the things seen.
It would seem Lazarus like many Jews were looking for a Jesus that would come in the likeness of man and establish his rule as the Jewish King and destroy the gentiles
Lazarus I would think was real bummed out because it was the end of the temporal, observable kingdom when God had used the flesh of Jews as shadows and types to preach the gospel of Christ in respect to the suffering of Christ before hand. The time of reformation had come the glory that followed the renting of the veil brought the ressurection, ten of thousands of old testament saints graves were opened and entered in to a sleep in his house of many mansions . A great tribulation for national Israel none like ever before or ever again. It would be a great mission field the fields are white .
I would think our new born again spirit and soul will be resurrected from the dead asleep . Like with Lazarus God will simply say rise receiver your new eternal bodies. We have I beleive in that sense passed from eternal death to eternal new spirit life. Jesus of his own free will gave up the Holy Spirit .
Our newly created(Not reconditioned ,like all the cars I had lol)) like the first creation it was not made of the things seen as rudiments of this corrupted heaven and earth. But the unseen spiritual things of God. The earthen bodies of death will not be born again of flesh and blood. (reincarnation) .The new created bodies will not be of flesh and blood it can never enter the new order We simply do not know the Spirit of holiness after the things seen.
It would seem Lazarus like many Jews were looking for a Jesus that would come in the likeness of man and establish his rule as the Jewish King and destroy the gentiles
Lazarus I would think was real bummed out because it was the end of the temporal, observable kingdom when God had used the flesh of Jews as shadows and types to preach the gospel of Christ in respect to the suffering of Christ before hand. The time of reformation had come the glory that followed the renting of the veil brought the ressurection, ten of thousands of old testament saints graves were opened and entered in to a sleep in his house of many mansions . A great tribulation for national Israel none like ever before or ever again. It would be a great mission field the fields are white .
Talking about resurrection.
The almond is a symbol of resurrection. It's the first (fruit) tree to wake-up out of its winter sleep & long before any other tree.
The almonds flowering, budding & fruiting are always separated in time. An almond motif was part of the divine design for the lampstand in the tabernacle
The best-known reference to the almond is Aaron's rod that budded (Numbers 17:1-13).
Ex 25:
33 Three bowls made like unto almonds, with a knop and a flower in one branch; and three bowls made like almonds in the other branch, with a knop and a flower: so in the six branches that come out of the candlestick.
34 And in the candlestick shall be four bowls made like unto almonds, with their knops and their flowers.
35 And there shall be a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches that proceed out of the candlestick.
(NOTE: An almond motif was part of the divine design for the lampstand in the tabernacle)
Numbers 17:
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and take of every one of them a rod according to the house of their fathers, of all their princes according to the house of their fathers twelve rods: write thou every man's name upon his rod.
3 And thou shalt write Aaron's name upon the rod of Levi: for one rod shall be for the head of the house of their fathers.
4 And thou shalt lay them up in the tabernacle of the congregation before the testimony, where I will meet with you.
5 And it shall come to pass, that the man's rod, whom I shall choose, shall blossom: and I will make to cease from me the murmurings of the children of Israel, whereby they murmur against you.
6 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, and every one of their princes gave him a rod apiece, for each prince one, according to their fathers' houses, even twelve rods: and the rod of Aaron was among their rods.
7 And Moses laid up the rods before the LORD in the tabernacle of witness.
8 And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.
(NOTE: Aaron's rod budded, flowered & produced fruit overnight. A shadow/symbol of power & the resurrected priest of God)
The almond is a symbol of resurrection. It's the first (fruit) tree to wake-up out of its winter sleep & long before any other tree.
The almonds flowering, budding & fruiting are always separated in time. An almond motif was part of the divine design for the lampstand in the tabernacle
The best-known reference to the almond is Aaron's rod that budded (Numbers 17:1-13).
Ex 25:
33 Three bowls made like unto almonds, with a knop and a flower in one branch; and three bowls made like almonds in the other branch, with a knop and a flower: so in the six branches that come out of the candlestick.
34 And in the candlestick shall be four bowls made like unto almonds, with their knops and their flowers.
35 And there shall be a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches that proceed out of the candlestick.
(NOTE: An almond motif was part of the divine design for the lampstand in the tabernacle)
Numbers 17:
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and take of every one of them a rod according to the house of their fathers, of all their princes according to the house of their fathers twelve rods: write thou every man's name upon his rod.
3 And thou shalt write Aaron's name upon the rod of Levi: for one rod shall be for the head of the house of their fathers.
4 And thou shalt lay them up in the tabernacle of the congregation before the testimony, where I will meet with you.
5 And it shall come to pass, that the man's rod, whom I shall choose, shall blossom: and I will make to cease from me the murmurings of the children of Israel, whereby they murmur against you.
6 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, and every one of their princes gave him a rod apiece, for each prince one, according to their fathers' houses, even twelve rods: and the rod of Aaron was among their rods.
7 And Moses laid up the rods before the LORD in the tabernacle of witness.
8 And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.
(NOTE: Aaron's rod budded, flowered & produced fruit overnight. A shadow/symbol of power & the resurrected priest of God)
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Hi Lanolin, perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but if you are referring to the spirits/souls of those who have died remaining in a dormant state (IOW, lying dead in the ground along with their bodies until they are resurrected at the end of the age), then I think you will find that there are more than just a "few" people who disagree with you 
There are cults, of course, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, that believe in the sleep of the soul (in the Intermediate State, the time between our death and resurrection), but no church within the pale of Christian orthodoxy does (save the 7th Day Adventists), be they Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, etc. Rather, all (but the one, the SDA) hold to the Biblical belief that soul sleep is heretical. This has been the belief and teaching of the entire Christian church for millennia now (and that because the Bible teaches that our souls are conscious during the Intermediate State).
~Deut
There are cults, of course, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, that believe in the sleep of the soul (in the Intermediate State, the time between our death and resurrection), but no church within the pale of Christian orthodoxy does (save the 7th Day Adventists), be they Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, etc. Rather, all (but the one, the SDA) hold to the Biblical belief that soul sleep is heretical. This has been the belief and teaching of the entire Christian church for millennia now (and that because the Bible teaches that our souls are conscious during the Intermediate State).
~Deut
Nope.
If we are immediately with the Lord Noose, what happens here? 1 Thess. 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
And here: 1 Cor. 15:20-23 "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."
And here: 1 Cor. 15:20-23 "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."
In 1 Thess 4 and many other resurrection passages, it has been described that the Lord descends with a shout and a trump and the dead in Christ rise first and then those that are alive are caught in the air together with them. These are not physical events that are visible in the eye because resurrection is spiritual. Paul at one moment counts himself amongst those that are alive during this event and in another moment counts himself amongst those that are raised and are caught together with his first century listeners- so it shows that resurrection is a continuous thing that started at some point in the 1st century which they eagerly awaited.
1 Thess 4:
13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
2 Cor 4:
12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13And in keeping with what is written: “I believed, therefore I have spoken,”c we who have the same spirit of faith also believe and therefore speak, 14knowing that the One who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in His presence. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is extending to more and more people may overflow in thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
The order remains the same, Christ the first fruits means the resurrected believers, then those that are alive are caught up with them- means the spirits of resurrected believers indwell them here on earth and this is the idea behind God having his kingdom here on earth.
The other problematic area is Christ's coming; does Christ come at the end of age or has He been coming since the first century after the establishment of the church?
Heb 10:25Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching. .....
36You need to persevere, so that after you have done the will of God, you will receive what He has promised. 37For,
“In just a little while, He who is coming will come and will not delay.
I believe the day approached and the one who was to come came and that was the beginning of all these things.
Here's what Isaiah said about resurrection:
Isa 26:
19Your dead will live; their bodies will rise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust!
For your dew is like the dew of the morning,
and the earth will bring forth her dead.
20Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut your doors behind you.
Hide yourselves a little while
until the wrath has passed.
21For behold, the LORD is coming out of His dwelling
to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity.
The earth will reveal her bloodshed
and no longer conceal her slain.
Q. Which rooms are these that the resurrected are told to hide for a while? Are these rooms in heaven or Earth and is the wrath to be poured to the heavens or earth?
Isa 26:
19Your dead will live; their bodies will rise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust!
For your dew is like the dew of the morning,
and the earth will bring forth her dead.
20Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut your doors behind you.
Hide yourselves a little while
until the wrath has passed.
21For behold, the LORD is coming out of His dwelling
to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity.
The earth will reveal her bloodshed
and no longer conceal her slain.
Q. Which rooms are these that the resurrected are told to hide for a while? Are these rooms in heaven or Earth and is the wrath to be poured to the heavens or earth?
Hi Lanolin, perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but if you are referring to the spirits/souls of those who have died remaining in a dormant state (IOW, lying dead in the ground along with their bodies until they are resurrected at the end of the age), then I think you will find that there are more than just a "few" people who disagree with you
There are cults, of course, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, that believe in the sleep of the soul (in the Intermediate State, the time between our death and resurrection), but no church within the pale of Christian orthodoxy does (save the 7th Day Adventists), be they Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, etc. Rather, all (but the one, the SDA) hold to the Biblical belief that soul sleep is heretical. This has been the belief and teaching of the entire Christian church for millennia now (and that because the Bible teaches that our souls are conscious during the Intermediate State).
~Deut
There are cults, of course, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, that believe in the sleep of the soul (in the Intermediate State, the time between our death and resurrection), but no church within the pale of Christian orthodoxy does (save the 7th Day Adventists), be they Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, etc. Rather, all (but the one, the SDA) hold to the Biblical belief that soul sleep is heretical. This has been the belief and teaching of the entire Christian church for millennia now (and that because the Bible teaches that our souls are conscious during the Intermediate State).
~Deut
The Fall of Babylon
Revelation 18:1-14 “And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, and cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Revelation 18:15-24 “The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, and cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.”
Everyone will. The Scripture the dead in Messiah will be resurrected first. Then those that are alive and THE REST... 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17(not written in summarized by be, you/ people can look it up).
So yes, I will be resurrected anlong with everyone else... but when we stand at the Whited Throne Judgement, I WILL BE IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BECAUSE Y-SUA IS MY MESSIAH!!!!
So yes, I will be resurrected anlong with everyone else... but when we stand at the Whited Throne Judgement, I WILL BE IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BECAUSE Y-SUA IS MY MESSIAH!!!!
Depends with your understanding.
Isa 26:
19But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.
Isa 26:
19But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.
IMO, the rapture is the idea that the dead in Christ shall all be raised at some point in time and then those that are living will be caught in the air together with them (the risen dead), to meet the Lord. This is the first resurrection according to rapturists- so resurrection and rapture are inseparable but this idea is unbiblical; just because it is said that the dead rise first and are caught in the air together with living doesn't mean it happens physically.
1. The dead being caught in the air together with the living means that their spirit indwells the living believers to influence and judge them
2. Resurrection is not physical but spiritual so it is not visible
3. The first resurrection is not a one day event in the future but is happening every day starting sometime in the first century and covers all the church era
2 Cor 4:
12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God
Q1. How does Paul's death benefit his listeners?
Not only Paul but Peter also taught the same:
2 Peter 1:12So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,14because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.
Q2. How was Peter
1. The dead being caught in the air together with the living means that their spirit indwells the living believers to influence and judge them
2. Resurrection is not physical but spiritual so it is not visible
3. The first resurrection is not a one day event in the future but is happening every day starting sometime in the first century and covers all the church era
2 Cor 4:
12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God
Q1. How does Paul's death benefit his listeners?
Not only Paul but Peter also taught the same:
2 Peter 1:12So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,14because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.
Q2. How was Peter
Ok if resurrection is only spiritual which I get a lot of people insist, then wouldnt Jesus body still be left behind in the tomb. If only his spirit was raised.
And nobody would have seen him. With their own eyes.
Is that what you mean or am I getting it wrong.
Or are you saying Jesus resurrection was only for him. And maybe lazarus, cos he did come out of the grave. And everyone saw.
Am I the only one thats confused by this a little when others say its only a spiriutal resurrection. Are are they saying all believers are resurrected the moment they believe in Jesus.
And nobody would have seen him. With their own eyes.
Is that what you mean or am I getting it wrong.
Or are you saying Jesus resurrection was only for him. And maybe lazarus, cos he did come out of the grave. And everyone saw.
Am I the only one thats confused by this a little when others say its only a spiriutal resurrection. Are are they saying all believers are resurrected the moment they believe in Jesus.
The almond rod seems to be a sign of rebellion against those who will not believe prophecy.
The Holy Spirit uses it us it to see if Jerimiah is paying attention to the word of prophecy he gave him to Jerimiah
I wonder if almond is not the fruit of the tree in the center of the garden?
Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree.Then said the Lord unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.Jerimiah 1:11-12
