Resolving Problematic Interpretations of Scripture

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Welcome to CC. I like the three ways of reading the Bible, although I would state them this way:

Some parts of the Bible mainly relate historical events (e.g. Genesis 1-2, Exodus 1-19, Numbers, 1Chronicles, Ezra),
and some parts reveal God's moral and Levitical will (e.g. Genesis 3-9, Exodus 20-23, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, the NT),
but all Scripture is inspired by God and therefore authoritative regarding spiritual and ultimate reality (2Tim. 3:15-17).
Yes, but there're two caveats I gotta add: first, the bible is sufficient but not exhaustive, it's not the one and only revelation of God, says the bible itself (Jn. 21:25); second, the original bible in ancient Hebrew and Greek is infallible, not all translations are infallible, every translation has its own errors and shortcomings, and this is just English ones, let alone translations of other languages, many of them are translated from English.
 
Yes, but there're two caveats I gotta add: first, the bible is sufficient but not exhaustive, it's not the one and only revelation of God, says the bible itself (Jn. 21:25); second, the original bible in ancient Hebrew and Greek is infallible, not all translations are infallible, every translation has its own errors and shortcomings, and this is just English ones, let alone translations of other languages, many of them are translated from English.

Yes, those who view the biblical canon as inspired by God disagree about what this means. Some people speak as though God dictated every word of the Bible to the human writers, which causes many people to be confused and think that if they find even one error in the extant Bible, the entirety must be untrustworthy, because they do not realize that the dictation theory has several caveats, such as that it refers to the original manuscripts (which we do not have) correctly interpreted or harmonized. The key to correct interpretation is NOT viewing the Bible as a modern science or history textbook, but rather as concerned with communicating God’s will to humanity regarding His requirement for salvation: THAT is what must be trustworthy!

The salvationist view of inspiration seems more logical than the dictationist view according to the following train of thought: Suppose God Himself wrote the inerrant message to humanity: “Thou shalt not lie, steal, murder or fornicate.” Suppose the first manuscript copier accidentally left out the comma between lie and steal. Would that invalidate God’s commandment? No, but it is still a mistake and no longer perfectly inerrant. Now suppose an evil copier intentionally changed the word fornicate to fumigate. Would that invalidate God’s commandment? Not all of it; only the changed word. How could we know which word or words were correct and not changed? We would need to compare the commandment with other statements purported to be inspired by God in order to see what is the overall or consistent message, so that we can acquire sufficient evidence to have reasonable belief that the word fumigate should be discounted.

Finally, suppose that no one changed God’s original commandment. How could we know absolutely or infallibly that it was inerrant? We could not; we walk by faith. We would still need to compare it with the totality of truth in order to discover whether there were any inconsistencies. Thus, an inerrant Bible is not needed, as long as there is sufficient consistency in God’s messages to humanity via the creation (TOJ #4), the scriptures (TOJ #3), the incarnate word (TOJ #186) and logic (TOJ #182) for souls to discern God’s requirement for salvation.

Perhaps the verse cited most often in the debate about inerrancy is 2 Timothy 3:16-17, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” Notice that the “scripture” that “is God-breathed” is that which “is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” Thus, any scripture which does NOT promote this purpose is NOT inspired by God and is NOT the scripture the writer of this passage (now considered as part of Holy Scripture) had in mind. Also, note that this verse says scripture is “useful”, meaning sufficient for accomplishing the purpose of teaching how to become morally righteous, not “inerrant” in all verses of the extant canon regarding all subjects, which is an interpretation some impose on this verse.
 
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Finally, suppose that no one changed God’s original commandment. How could we know absolutely or infallibly that it was inerrant? We could not; we walk by faith. We would still need to compare it with the totality of truth in order to discover whether there were any inconsistencies. Thus, an inerrant Bible is not needed, as long as there is sufficient consistency in God’s messages to humanity via the creation (TOJ #4), the scriptures (TOJ #3), the incarnate word (TOJ #186) and logic (TOJ #182) for souls to discern God’s requirement for salvation.

The gold standard is reality check. Unlike any other religious codex, more than a third of the bible is prophecy in regard of Israel, and they all come to pass, if you pay attention and know what to watch.

And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
 
The gold standard is reality check. Unlike any other religious codex, more than a third of the bible is prophecy in regard of Israel, and they all come to pass, if you pay attention and know what to watch.

And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Yes, the reality is that the atheist opinion is not proven either, which means that evidence needs to be evaluated honestly. Atheists assert that one cannot prove a negative, so the burden is on theists to prove God exists. However, this assertion assumes God is not the positive “I AM”. It is logical to remain open to believing all credible possibilities regarding ultimate reality and to hope the most desirable rational possibility is true while keeping in mind that the Bible indicates the purpose of this life is for humans to prove to God they are worthy of—or qualify for—heaven (cf. Deut. 6:16 & Matt. 4:7).

The truth is that everyone lives by faith regarding God or ultimate reality (2Cor. 5:7), and the structure of earthly reality forces souls to choose between various contradictory beliefs and to make (albeit sometimes rather subconsciously) the two watershed choices described: between nihilism and moralism, and between the various atheistic beliefs and the highest type of theism, NT Christianity.
Both theism and atheism are unproven opinions or opposite subjective conclusions requiring faith concerning ultimate reality. However, the NT teaches there will come a time—at the resurrection or eschaton—when the proof atheists demand will be provided, and KOTH will end. At that time NT theism will be revealed as the right or true ideology as souls reap the opposite destinies of heaven and hell in accordance with their moral choices, beginning with their decision whether to love or to disregard God (cf. Matt. 7:24-27).

I think any open-minded truthseeker who compares the NT teachings of Jesus and Paul with the founding scriptures of other religions will reach the same conclusion as I have: The NT is the most credible canon or collection of writings purporting to be a communique from God. The NT hope for heaven is based on evidence in support of Jesus’ claim to be Messiah/Christ, which includes: the prophecy or foreshadowing of His life (in various OT scriptures, including IS 53 and PS 22, and by the sacrificial system), the purpose of His death (as explained in the NT, such as Heb. 7:18-10:18), and the probability or credibility of His resurrection (in history as recorded by the last chapters of the Gospels and Rom. 1:3-4).

Christianity qualified OT theism, which emphasized God’s love for some people (descendants of Abraham), with a UMI to love everyone by reflecting His love, beginning with God and continuing with oneself and one’s neighbors (whether Jew or Gentile) and even including one’s enemies (per Matt. 22:37-39 & 5:44). The best reason to hope in God is Christ. Paul calls those who have saving faith/cooperate with God’s will the spiritual or righteous children of Abraham (Rom. 3:28-30 & 4:9-16).
 
Yes, the reality is that the atheist opinion is not proven either, which means that evidence needs to be evaluated honestly. Atheists assert that one cannot prove a negative, so the burden is on theists to prove God exists. However, this assertion assumes God is not the positive “I AM”. It is logical to remain open to believing all credible possibilities regarding ultimate reality and to hope the most desirable rational possibility is true while keeping in mind that the Bible indicates the purpose of this life is for humans to prove to God they are worthy of—or qualify for—heaven (cf. Deut. 6:16 & Matt. 4:7).

The truth is that everyone lives by faith regarding God or ultimate reality (2Cor. 5:7), and the structure of earthly reality forces souls to choose between various contradictory beliefs and to make (albeit sometimes rather subconsciously) the two watershed choices described: between nihilism and moralism, and between the various atheistic beliefs and the highest type of theism, NT Christianity.
Both theism and atheism are unproven opinions or opposite subjective conclusions requiring faith concerning ultimate reality. However, the NT teaches there will come a time—at the resurrection or eschaton—when the proof atheists demand will be provided, and KOTH will end. At that time NT theism will be revealed as the right or true ideology as souls reap the opposite destinies of heaven and hell in accordance with their moral choices, beginning with their decision whether to love or to disregard God (cf. Matt. 7:24-27).

I think any open-minded truthseeker who compares the NT teachings of Jesus and Paul with the founding scriptures of other religions will reach the same conclusion as I have: The NT is the most credible canon or collection of writings purporting to be a communique from God. The NT hope for heaven is based on evidence in support of Jesus’ claim to be Messiah/Christ, which includes: the prophecy or foreshadowing of His life (in various OT scriptures, including IS 53 and PS 22, and by the sacrificial system), the purpose of His death (as explained in the NT, such as Heb. 7:18-10:18), and the probability or credibility of His resurrection (in history as recorded by the last chapters of the Gospels and Rom. 1:3-4).

Christianity qualified OT theism, which emphasized God’s love for some people (descendants of Abraham), with a UMI to love everyone by reflecting His love, beginning with God and continuing with oneself and one’s neighbors (whether Jew or Gentile) and even including one’s enemies (per Matt. 22:37-39 & 5:44). The best reason to hope in God is Christ. Paul calls those who have saving faith/cooperate with God’s will the spiritual or righteous children of Abraham (Rom. 3:28-30 & 4:9-16).
There's no atheist, everyone worships a deity, the common candidates are mother earth, federal government, technology, material wealth and ancient ancestor. When you don't worship a creator God, you'd worship everything.

What convinces me of not only the existence of a creator God, but the necessity of a creator God, is the first and second laws of thermodynamics - in an isolated system, no matter can be created or destroyed, and all matters and energies naturally deteriorates from an orderly state to a disorderly state. Therefore, the universe cannot have created itself, nor can it sustain itself, there must be a God OUTSIDE the universe, i.e. heavens and earth, to create and maintain it.
 
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If this is about how to interpret the Scripture, there're primarily three ways - legalistic, reading the bible as a law book or at least an instruction manual; historic, reading the bible as a history book, everything written in it is real historical events, including the supernatural miracles and the prophecies, which are future events; inspirational, reading the bible as a self help book for inspiration and encouragement.

For the bible to be authoritative, you need the first view; to be trustworthy, you need the second view; to be effective, you need the third view. The third one is the hardest, 'cause this is where the word of God becomes personal to you.

Thank you for sharing words of soundness.
Some will surely twist the truth even when it is made clear.
 
There's no atheist, everyone worships a deity, the common candidates are mother earth, federal government, technology, material wealth and ancient ancestor. When you don't worship a creator God, you'd worship everything.

What convinces me of not only the existence of a creator God, but the necessity of a creator God, is the first and second laws of thermodynamics - in an isolated system, no matter can be created or destroyed, and all matters and energies naturally deteriorates from an orderly state to a disorderly state. Therefore, the universe cannot have created itself, nor can it sustain itself, there must be a God OUTSIDE the universe, i.e. heavens and earth, to create and maintain it.

Yes, atheists worship some deity other than the One true God, most commonly themselves, which I refer to as I-dolatry.

I agree that evidence does not support an eternal universe or natural creation of order.

These truths are examples of what should be preached/taught by pastors by way of apologetics per 1Pet. 3:15
and building on the foundation of the Gospel per 1Cor. 3:10 & Heb. 6:1-2.
 
I would say spiritual unity can only come through the Holy Spirit, he is the common link in John17:20-23

Amen. This truth is also taught in Romans 8, which elaborates on Rom. 5:5 as follows:

Rom. 8:1 - Those who believe in Christ are saved from condemnation because of His atonement (Rom. 3:21-5:1).
Rom. 8:9-10 - Anyone who does not have the HS/Spirit of Christ is not in Christ nor Christ in him. (Does this apply to pre-NT believers?)
Rom. 8:14-17 - Those having the Spirit of God are God's spiritual children and co-heirs of heaven with Christ after sharing his suffering.
Rom. 8:18-27 - From the "our" in v. 18 to the "our" in v. 27, spiritual unity is implied/indicated.
 
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Having completed a systematic study of Scriptures related to the TULIP dogma, here it is again with Scriptures indicating the opposite in parentheses:

T – total depravity, meaning souls are unable to exercise sufficient MFW to seek salvation. (Matt. 7:7, Rom. 1:20, 2:5, 3:22-28)

U – unconditional election, meaning that souls need not satisfy a divine requirement such as faith or repentance, but God chooses to save some while damning the rest to hell. (Matt. 4:17, 7:21, John 3:16, Eph. 2:8-10, Gal. 5:6, 1John 3:23)

L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for elect souls. (Rom. 3:22-26, 5:18, 2Cor. 5:14-19, Heb. 2:14-17, 1John 2:2)

I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist or refuse God’s will for them to be saved. (Matt. 13:14-15, 23:37, 1Tim. 2:3-4, Tit. 2:11, 2Pet. 3:9)

P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy, because God perseveres in keeping them saved. (Rom. 11:22, 1Cor. 15:2, Gal. 5:4, Col. 1:22-23, 2Thes. 1:4-5, 2Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6&14, 10:35-36, Jam. 1:12, 2Pet. 1:10-11, 2:20, 1John 2:24-25 and Rev. 2:10)

The viewpoint opposed to TULIP may be termed Moral Free Will (MFW) and described as follows:

M – God’s requirement for salvation (GRFS) is a Moral condition called faith, which is manifested as seeking God’s righteousness or salvation, which in turn presumes sufficient human volition even for sinners to make them morally accountable.

F – God enables all morally accountable souls sufficient Freedom to satisfy GRFS—or not, because His grace is not irresistible, which means sinners are accountable and justly condemned when they do not repent and accept Christ’s atonement for their sins

W – Faith is almost synonymous with Will, but volition focuses on faith as cooperation with God (or not), and cooperating with God by accepting His grace is NOT meritorious or working to earn heaven or salvation by obeying moral laws.

The T in TULIP is Totally wrong,
the U in TULIP is Unscriptural,
the L in TULIP is a Lie,
the I in TULIP Ignores much Scripture,
and the P in TULIP denies the Permissive will of God
that allows MFW and thus the Possibility of apostasy
and makes humans accountable for all sins.

Three Scriptures disprove TULIP without doing a systematic study:

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16)

“God our Savior wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” (1Tim. 2:3b-4)

"God does not show favoritism." (Rom. 2:11)
 
F. Free. A free will system is what God created. Adam and Eve could have made any choice. Regardless of our choices God's plan to die on behalf of His creation, allowing it to be free, is what happened, and therefore we are free. Free to hear the call of scripture or not and free to believe the scripture or not.
 
God now calls all men everywhere to repent.
Acts 17:22-31. Acts 17:30-31

All are called by the written and spoken word. Anyone can believe and be saved. No one is predestined to go to hell.
 
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No, they aren't. You've been told this many times, yet you continue the lie. Almost no modern-day reformed believe anyone was predestined to hell. You can continue to lie or stop. The choice is yours.

You can continue not to understand and kick against the goad of grammar.
"Almost no..." means "some" believe TULIP.
 
You can continue not to understand and kick against the goad of grammar.
"Almost no..." means "some" believe TULIP.
"And those that do are called TULIPists." is what you said. That's not true of almost all who accept TULIP as a summary of reformed soteriology. So it's clear that you're going to go with the lie. Totally expected. At least you're consistent.
 
"And those that do are called TULIPists." is what you said. That's not true of almost all who accept TULIP as a summary of reformed soteriology. So it's clear that you're going to go with the lie. Totally expected. At least you're consistent.

Ditto.
 
I didn't know what it is about people on discussion boards who try to tell people what they believe, and even after being corrected, still insist they believe it. I suppose it's so they can "win the argument." They are the worst kind of people.
 
I didn't know what it is about people on discussion boards who try to tell people what they believe, and even after being corrected, still insist they believe it. I suppose it's so they can "win the argument." They are the worst kind of people.

Not sure I understand that garbled comment, but I do not argue. I tell people that those who believe in TULIP believe the following:

T – total depravity, meaning souls are unable to exercise sufficient MFW to seek salvation.

U – unconditional election, meaning that souls need not satisfy a divine requirement such as faith or repentance, but God chooses to save some while damning the rest to hell.

L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for elect souls.

I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist or refuse God’s will for them to be saved.

P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy, because God perseveres in keeping them saved.

So, what part(s) of this telling have you corrected?
 
Not sure I understand that garbled comment, but I do not argue.
:ROFL:
I tell people that those who believe in TULIP believe the following:
T – total depravity, meaning souls are unable to exercise sufficient MFW to seek salvation.
False
U – unconditional election, meaning that souls need not satisfy a divine requirement such as faith or repentance, but God chooses to save some while damning the rest to hell.
False
L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for elect souls.
True
I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist or refuse God’s will for them to be saved.
False
P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy, because God perseveres in keeping them saved.
True
So, what part(s) of this telling have you corrected?
You tell them incorrectly. Which proves my previous point. You want to tell people what they believe, instead of listening to what they say they believe. Even after being told that's not what we believe. Many times. You got two out of five correct. Perhaps try listening and you'll get more of them. I would tell you what I believe those actually mean if I thought you would be willing to listen. Based on prior experience, I don't believe you would.