Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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After reading my Quote...I can now see why it was so confusing for many of you, so I will try to explain it.
Your interpretations....of what Paul taught, go against what Jesus taught.
Notice,.....I did not say Paul taught against Jesus, but that....your interpretation.....of Pauls teachings, oppose what is taught in the Lords gospel. This, all by itself, proves your teachings are false, because Pauls told us, his teachings are founded upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now pretend, you are the teachers...and Pilgrims Hope and I are the students. So...Teach us.
If your interpretations of Paul teachings, on Grace,... are the Truth, show us the foundation for those teachings in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you can not do this, that should prove....your interpretation is false.
Did Jesus use the word Grace in his Gospel?
Your interpretations....of what Paul taught, go against what Jesus taught.
Notice,.....I did not say Paul taught against Jesus, but that....your interpretation.....of Pauls teachings, oppose what is taught in the Lords gospel. This, all by itself, proves your teachings are false, because Pauls told us, his teachings are founded upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now pretend, you are the teachers...and Pilgrims Hope and I are the students. So...Teach us.
If your interpretations of Paul teachings, on Grace,... are the Truth, show us the foundation for those teachings in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you can not do this, that should prove....your interpretation is false.
Did Jesus use the word Grace in his Gospel?
Did Jesus need to use the word, grace?
Every letter in the New Testament has that word, grace, except for the first three gospels.
It must be a very important word because it occurs 112 times.
Your claiming that the following verse.
Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Is not true, because no one can be saved that easily.
How can someone be saved simply because someone called on the name of Jesus?
According to you, a person must do everything that Jesus taught, otherwise they are not saved!
What kind of question is this? Do you NOT believe what the authors of the NT said about Jesus?
John 1:14 - The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:17 - For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jesus didn't need to "use the word 'grace' in His gospel". He IS grace. Full of grace, in fact.
Every letter in the New Testament has that word, grace, except for the first three gospels.
You must admit that's a bit strange, since Jesus was the one who brought us the teachings of Grace.
It must be a very important word because it occurs 112 times.
The word Love is mentioned over 200 times!
Your claiming that the following verse.
Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Is not true, because no one can be saved that easily.
I agree...it is not that easy, at least not right now.
Paul and every teacher in the New Testament believed they were in the Last days and thats why Paul made the statement. I also teach (Romans 10:13) for the very same reason. Obviously not as you do, but I teach it according to what Christ taught in (Matthew 24). For if we are in the last days, no matter what doctrine a Christian follows, if they reject the mark of the beast, renounce him because they call Jesus, 'Lord....
They will ...be saved!!
Sounds easy enogh, but in reality, it will mean that you and your family will not be able to buy anything and probably starve...or beheaded ....for calling Jesus, 'Lord.
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause to be killed as many as would not worship the image of the beast. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads, that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.
(Revelation 13:15-17)
According to you, a person must do everything that Jesus taught, otherwise they are not saved![/QUOTE]
Not according to me..but according to God!! And please note, again it is Paul who wrote this in his epistles.
For it is a righteous thing with God to recompense with tribulation those who trouble you; and to you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-8)
You must admit that's a bit strange, since Jesus was the one who brought us the teachings of Grace.
It must be a very important word because it occurs 112 times.
The word Love is mentioned over 200 times!
Your claiming that the following verse.
Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Is not true, because no one can be saved that easily.
I agree...it is not that easy, at least not right now.
Paul and every teacher in the New Testament believed they were in the Last days and thats why Paul made the statement. I also teach (Romans 10:13) for the very same reason. Obviously not as you do, but I teach it according to what Christ taught in (Matthew 24). For if we are in the last days, no matter what doctrine a Christian follows, if they reject the mark of the beast, renounce him because they call Jesus, 'Lord....
They will ...be saved!!
Sounds easy enogh, but in reality, it will mean that you and your family will not be able to buy anything and probably starve...or beheaded ....for calling Jesus, 'Lord.
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause to be killed as many as would not worship the image of the beast. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads, that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.
(Revelation 13:15-17)
According to you, a person must do everything that Jesus taught, otherwise they are not saved![/QUOTE]
Not according to me..but according to God!! And please note, again it is Paul who wrote this in his epistles.
For it is a righteous thing with God to recompense with tribulation those who trouble you; and to you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-8)
Not according to me..but according to God!! And please note, again it is Paul who wrote this in his epistles.
For it is a righteous thing with God to recompense with tribulation those who trouble you; and to you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-8)[/QUOTE]A very difficult post to read. I wrote some of those verses you quoted. And I had trouble, understanding what I wrote and what you wrote.
You may have trouble with the HTML language. That's ok, just put a line space between what I said and what you said. You could even put what I said in italics, which would be better.
How about we try again.
Paul made the following statement.
Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Do you accept or reject what Paul said?
A very difficult post to read. I wrote some of those verses you quoted. And I had trouble, understanding what I wrote and what you wrote.
You may have trouble with the HTML language. That's ok, just put a line space between what I said and what you said. You could even put what I said in italics, which would be better.
How about we try again.
Paul made the following statement.
Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Do you accept or reject what Paul said?[/QUOTE]
I absolutely reject that, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." In fact, you pulled your citation out of context thereby changing it's meaniing in order to meet your viewpoint.
JESUS TELLS US THAT IS NOT SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jesus tells us very clearly that that will not be the case. Jesus says, "“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter." (Matthew 7-21)
The question is, "Do you believe Jesus?"
I absolutely reject that, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." In fact, you pulled your citation out of context thereby changing it's meaniing in order to meet your viewpoint.
JESUS TELLS US THAT IS NOT SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jesus tells us very clearly that that will not be the case. Jesus says, "“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter." (Matthew 7-21)
The question is, "Do you believe Jesus?"[/QUOTE]Paul is quoting from the Old Testament.
Joel 2:32
And it will come about that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord Will be saved.
You are contradicting what Paul wrote and what God has declared.
If you believe your works are necessary as the folk in your quoted text (Matthew 7-21) believe. Then you are not accepting what the Lord has declared.
You will canvas your works before the Lord on that day and say. Look what I have done. The outcome will be the same for you and everyone else that relies on their works. Your works compared to other Christians look solid but who would dare to boast before the Lord. Not me.
Confess your lawlessness to the divine revelation, seek to be forgiven. Accept what the Lord has told you.
Joel 2:32
And it will come about that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord Will be saved.
Sorry for the confusion, but Sometimes you put a space between each and every sentence and I thought maybe you did that because you wanted me to address each comment individually. And I tried to put my comments in Italics to separate your comments from mine. And I do have some problems I need to overcome on this site. More bells and whistles than I am used to.
But anyway...I absolutely accept Pauls teaching, but I do not accept the popular teaching in which many believe.
When Paul said, "All those who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved", it is not a teaching meant for those who wish to be saved....who do not go through the great tribulation period, But for those who do go through the great tribulation. During those days, we must choose, choose between Jesus and the Beast.
Those who reject the Mark of the Beast, will of course, be Christians. Why would a nonbeliever chose death over life, and the ability to buy and sell, when all they need to do is worship the Beast? And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads, that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.
(Revelation 13:16-17)
But...for those who reject the beast, those who call Jesus Lord, it will mean their death..beheaded in many cases. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause to be killed as many as would not worship the image of the beast.
(Revelation 13:15)
Again, don't take my word for it, but look at the book of Joel, to determine the time when men will be saved because they called upon the name of the Lord...The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.
(Joel 2:31-32)
You need to remember, nobody knows when the Lord will return, including Paul. So this was a teaching in case Paul was in the Last Days. All teachers believed they were in the last days. I teach believing I am living in the last days too.
To continue.....
If you read (Romans 9&10), you can see Paul is concerned for the Jews. Their salvation is at stake, because they rejected Jesus as the Christ. A lot of people don't think about this, but since the Jews rejected Jesus....They are still waiting for their Christ.
Guess who that someone is going to be?
“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand), then let them that be in Judea flee unto the mountains.
(Matthew 24:15-16)
In other words....
When the Jews put the beast in place of Jesus, as their Christ,....Run for your lives...Literally!!
The beast will be everything....Jesus wasn't. Remember he didn't look like a King to them, so they rejected him.
During the last days...I have the same concern for the Christian as Paul had for the Jews. Our only hope at that time...is that both Jew and Gentile believer... will choose Jesus over the beast. All who call upon the name of the Lord...Will be saved. And that's the truth!! Your doctrines will not matter, but your choice will.
If you read (Romans 9&10), you can see Paul is concerned for the Jews. Their salvation is at stake, because they rejected Jesus as the Christ. A lot of people don't think about this, but since the Jews rejected Jesus....They are still waiting for their Christ.
Guess who that someone is going to be?
“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand), then let them that be in Judea flee unto the mountains.
(Matthew 24:15-16)
In other words....
When the Jews put the beast in place of Jesus, as their Christ,....Run for your lives...Literally!!
The beast will be everything....Jesus wasn't. Remember he didn't look like a King to them, so they rejected him.
During the last days...I have the same concern for the Christian as Paul had for the Jews. Our only hope at that time...is that both Jew and Gentile believer... will choose Jesus over the beast. All who call upon the name of the Lord...Will be saved. And that's the truth!! Your doctrines will not matter, but your choice will.
You might be interested to know that Paul starts addressing the Jews. Much earlier in the letter to the Romans. Carefully read chapter two and you will see that's where Paul is talking directly to the Jews in Rome. He continues this dialogue with the Jews into chapter eleven.
Not noticing whom Paul is talking to in the the letter to the Romans, has a powerful effect on how one interprets this letter.
I used (Romans 9&10) because you quoted from (Romans 10:13), and 9&10 set the stage for Romans 10:13 And I hope I sufficiently answered your question
I put a line in between sentences to make the post as simple as possible. I also try to keep a post under ten lines, once again, the KISS principle, keep it simple stup...Sorry for the confusion, but Sometimes you put a space between each and every sentence and I thought maybe you did that because you wanted me to address each comment individually. And I tried to put my comments in Italics to separate your comments from mine. And I do have some problems I need to overcome on this site. More bells and whistles than I am used to.
Yes Goliath, Paul was the only author that laid out the gospel in a formal way. Yet, so many folk get confused between the simple gospel and the instructions related to the Christian life. Most church movements combine them together and everyone is confused.
Introducing eschatology into the debate increases the complexity of the debate.
Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord is saved. Those who believe receive the Holy Spirit will be warned about the beast anyway.
The gospel always remains exactly the same.
I did not change the meaning of the gospel. You are saved because you believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
That's the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Your interpretation is forcing you to deny what the apostle Paul wrote.
That's what they believe Arthur...Without realizing it, they have made Paul their savior...
Notice how they trample all over the teachings of Jesus, and the same....accuse us of defamatory statements about Pauls teachings.
But Brother....we still have the same hope Paul had for the Jews...That is, they recognize the Mark of the Beast, and make the right decision.
So you agree that Paul has stated the gospel below?
Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Wouldn't this "research" necessarily presume the people polled are actual Christians? When the research outcome would say otherwise .
We don't work to attain or retain our Salvation.
The good works we do as Saints are in service to God's will for us. Not to persuade God to keep us in his grace.
We don't work to attain or retain our Salvation.
The good works we do as Saints are in service to God's will for us. Not to persuade God to keep us in his grace.
In the last days...as I have stated, I Absolutely agree one can be saved, as prescribed by Paul. But it's because they reject the mark of the beast. And a public confession will cause your death...and because of this...you will be saved...according to (Revelation 20:4)
4 Then I saw thrones and seated on them were those who had been given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. These had not worshiped the beast or his image and had refused to receive his mark on their forehead or hand. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Questions for you....according to what you believe...
Do you actually tell someone, who wants to be saved...if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you are saved?
So that would mean our salvation is entirely up to us...not God.