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To clarify, is this your basic argument?
God always meant Israel to be those who believed in the gospel.
So the church has not replaced Israel, instead the church was always Israel from the beginning.
My argument is that Gods chosen people has always been those that are in Christ whether they are Jews or Gentiles, whether they were in Old Testament times or New Testament times.
Yep, so if we define the following equivalent terms
"Israel" as equivalent to "God's chosen people", and
"those that are in Christ" as "those who believed in the gospel"
Then you are saying that Israel is always those who believed in the gospel right?
K
kaylagrl
Guest
As EG posted long ago in this thread God bound himself to this promise, He will NOT break it, it is everlasting. You are dead wrong.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
And round the circle we go again. Are you being obtuse or you really don't understand what we are saying here?
Since he defined Israel as those who believed in the gospel, his argument is true by definition.
So he cannot be dead wrong.
No replacement, only continuation. One people of the Most High. One covenant in Christ.
The Bible's Version
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Kayalgrl and EG;s Version
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, whether you obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant or disobey my voice indeed and even if you don't keep my covenant and you DISOBEY MY VOICE, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Please explain to me why you and EG aren't heretics for preaching the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the bible says?
Why would I say anything about Gentile's who hate God, you guys aren't trying to replace God's chosen people with Gentiles who hate God, your trying to replace God's chosen people with Jews that hate God.
Can you answer the above with your response rather than blowing it off. I asked, why would I talk about God hating, Christ killing stiff-necked, lost unrepentant, GENTILE sinners when you aren't trying to replace God's chosen people with them?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
He loves to post verses that seem one sided, it forgets the verses that would show otherwise.
Lev 26, a passages I have mentioned multiple times
But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
43 The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them;
they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes.
44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;
for I am the Lord their God.
45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:
the fact is his argument is with scripture not us!. That covenant he made with THEM is binding today, it’s his promise it’s on him to keep it
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Lev 26:14 But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
Lev 26:15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
The Jews that WILL NOT hearken unto God and WILL NOT do all these commandments and DESPISE his statutes and who ABHOR God's judgements and WILL NOT do all my commandments, but BREAK God's covenant ARE NOT God's people. These people ARE NOT in Christ.
Can you explain how the verses you posted say anything any different than this?
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
See here is kjv’s problem
he admits that the punishment Isreal would recieve is a literal punishment, he admits that they deserve what they god.
but can he be honest.
this is what God told moses to write
And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 You[g] shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your [h]sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.
this happened totally in 70 Ad, and is continually ongoing as we speak
34 Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land;
then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.
35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest—
for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.
36 ‘And as for those of you who are left, I will send faintness[i] into their hearts in the lands of their enemies;
the sound of a shaken leaf shall cause them to flee;
they shall flee as though fleeing from a sword, and they shall fall when no one pursues.
37 They shall stumble over one another, as it were before a sword, when no one pursues;
and you shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
can he humble himself enoug to admit this has literally taken place? Can he admit that God kept his promise and did what he said he would do?
will he admit that it God kept this promise concerning his covenant with Isreal that it goes to reason that God will keep all his promises, and that immediately after Gods warning, he also made this promise?
But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
will he humbly admit that if Israel repents, God will keep this promise also? Or will he continue in pride, contrary to what the word says in many places, and declair god is done with them no matter what? That they have no hope and God is not obligated to keep that promise, although God on his word said he will (and prophecy also shows that Israel WILL repent, amd that God will keep his promise?
again, his argument is with the word not us.
he posts the verse where god says if they obey he will honor them as his people and bless them and protect them, well this is true,
they are not in obedience, are they blessed and protected? No, they are receiving what God promised they would receive, they are being punished, and will continue to be punished as long as they remain in disobedience,
he admits that the punishment Isreal would recieve is a literal punishment, he admits that they deserve what they god.
but can he be honest.
this is what God told moses to write
And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 You[g] shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your [h]sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.
this happened totally in 70 Ad, and is continually ongoing as we speak
34 Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land;
then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.
35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest—
for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.
36 ‘And as for those of you who are left, I will send faintness[i] into their hearts in the lands of their enemies;
the sound of a shaken leaf shall cause them to flee;
they shall flee as though fleeing from a sword, and they shall fall when no one pursues.
37 They shall stumble over one another, as it were before a sword, when no one pursues;
and you shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
can he humble himself enoug to admit this has literally taken place? Can he admit that God kept his promise and did what he said he would do?
will he admit that it God kept this promise concerning his covenant with Isreal that it goes to reason that God will keep all his promises, and that immediately after Gods warning, he also made this promise?
But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
will he humbly admit that if Israel repents, God will keep this promise also? Or will he continue in pride, contrary to what the word says in many places, and declair god is done with them no matter what? That they have no hope and God is not obligated to keep that promise, although God on his word said he will (and prophecy also shows that Israel WILL repent, amd that God will keep his promise?
again, his argument is with the word not us.
he posts the verse where god says if they obey he will honor them as his people and bless them and protect them, well this is true,
they are not in obedience, are they blessed and protected? No, they are receiving what God promised they would receive, they are being punished, and will continue to be punished as long as they remain in disobedience,
Well, thanks a lot Sir. Yet it seems I was only here yesterday, seeing these discussions.
I humbly admit that if any God hating, enemy of the gospel Jew will repent and come to the Lord in faith, then God will forgive him and he can become one of God's chosen people. I have never said otherwise.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Great, Romans 11 says they will. So you can quite acting like the Jews are more an enemy of the Gospel than any other unsaved person. And no Jew today is a "Christ killer".
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Kjvs other problem
he thinks it’s all about salvation
the things I have posted concerns the land, and the promises made to Abraham Isaac and Jacob, the very promise of living in peace being blessed and being a nation that shows the world that the avid of heaven is the true God of the universe.
lev 26 god spoke of those promises and his covenant with THEM
then he totally ignored this passage I posted a few days ago
Ezekiel 36 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.
33 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land shall be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by. 35 So they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden; and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’
again, his argument is with the word, not us,
he thinks it’s all about salvation
the things I have posted concerns the land, and the promises made to Abraham Isaac and Jacob, the very promise of living in peace being blessed and being a nation that shows the world that the avid of heaven is the true God of the universe.
lev 26 god spoke of those promises and his covenant with THEM
then he totally ignored this passage I posted a few days ago
Ezekiel 36 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.
33 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land shall be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by. 35 So they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden; and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’
again, his argument is with the word, not us,