Replacement theology? Yes or No.

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In the Bible, the daily sin-related offerings—specifically the continual burnt offering that accompanied atonement—were performed twice daily: once in the morning (around 9:00 AM) and once in the evening (around 3:00 PM). These times, representing the "third hour" and "ninth hour," structured the daily rhythm of worship, with the evening offering often marking the final sacrifice of the day.

With that being said our Lord had total control of his death and resurrection. Appointed times even in the crucifixion.
Pilot was even amazed that he had died so soon as some that ment that fate lasted for 2 to 3 days.
Jesus has the power over life and death...even his own for he is life.
Sad to see that some dont follow the bread crumbs the Holy Spirit leaves.
This to me is so astounding but also a needed evidence that support who Jesus was and is.
Who else but God could orchestrate such a thing? Who is like our God?
Out of disbelief and I believe fear pilot order the legs to be broken in order to suffocate the victims and put a end to the event for the sake partially of Passover. But our savior suffered a spear instead...to bring about the prophecy....not a bone shall be broken of him.

Gods total control....Jesus birth, life, and death, and resurrection, according to scripture....amen.
 
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God-fearing said:
In the Bible, the daily sin-related offerings—specifically the continual burnt offering that accompanied atonement—were performed twice daily: once in the morning (around 9:00 AM) and once in the evening (around 3:00 PM). These times, representing the "third hour" and "ninth hour," structured the daily rhythm of worship, with the evening offering often marking the final sacrifice of the day.

With that being said our Lord had total control of his death and resurrection. Appointed times even in the crucifixion.
Pilot was even amazed that he had died so soon as some that ment that fate lasted for 2 to 3 days.
Jesus has the power over life and death...even his own for he is life.
Sad to see that some dont follow the bread crumbs the Holy Spirit leaves.
This to me is so astounding but also a needed evidence that support who Jesus was and is.
Who else but God could orchestrate such a thing? Who is like our God?
Out of disbelief and I believe fear pilot order the legs to be broken in order to suffocate the victims and put a end to the event for the sake partially of Passover. But our savior suffered a spear instead...to bring about the prophecy....not a bone shall be broken of him.

Gods total control....Jesus birth, life, and death, and resurrection, according to scripture....amen.
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Is it not possible to understand all of that and also know that people deliberately murdered Him at the same time?
Jesus died on the cross for many sins, and one of those sins was the act of putting Him on the cross.
 
Beekeeper said:
Is it not possible to understand all of that and also know that people deliberately murdered Him at the same time?
Jesus died on the cross for many sins, and one of those sins was the act of putting Him on the cross.
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1. Jesus pleaded forgiveness to the father...
2. Jesus siad....no man takes my life.
3. Jesus siad ....he had the power to lay his life down and to pick it up again.

Now ask yourself....where can murder be brought into this?
You know the people involved....suspects.
You know the instruments used...evidence
You say a crime has been committed....statments
Now show me the body.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
This is what many don't get. The new covenant was made with the houses of Israel and Judah in the persons of the 11 disciples, and no one else. Any others are grafted into that covenant by faith in their words.
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No - this is what many don't get. The olive tree is not Israel. Israel is represented by the "natural" branches - but the root (and trunk) of the tree is God/Jesus - Israel is only represented as [being] branches (of/on the tree) - do you understand what I am saying?

The new covenant was made with all who believe and accept Christ.

No one has ever been grafted into Israel. All are grafted into God/Christ.

Under the new covenant - Jews are grafted into God/Christ - Gentiles are grafted into God/Christ.

Jews are branches. Gentiles are branches. God/Christ is the root (and trunk).

Understand?

Go read Romans 11 very carefully.

Let me say again - be careful to not confuse the new covenant with Israel.
 
God-fearing said:
Question for you my friend.....this will probably get a lot of feedback back.

Did Jesus die because of wounds? Loss of blood? In short did he die because of what he endured?
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Crucifixions generally caused death by suffocation, a slow painful death.
 
cv5 said:
What is definitely NOT true is that the crucifixion = the abomination of desolation.
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I totally agree.

cv5 said:
Anyone who says so is conjuring up horrific heresy out of their vain imagination.
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Anyone who says the AoD is anything but what happened under the direction of Antiochus Epiphanes in 167 B.C. has conjured it up in their imagination rather than having made a proper interpretation of scripture.
 
God-fearing said:
1. Jesus pleaded forgiveness to the father...
2. Jesus siad....no man takes my life.
3. Jesus siad ....he had the power to lay his life down and to pick it up again.

Now ask yourself....where can murder be brought into this?
You know the people involved....suspects.
You know the instruments used...evidence
You say a crime has been committed....statments
Now show me the body.
Click to expand...

Sounds like one of those predestination arguments.
 
GaryA said:
No - this is what many don't get. The olive tree is not Israel. Israel is represented by the "natural" branches - but the root (and trunk) of the tree is God/Jesus - Israel is only represented as [being] branches (of/on the tree) - do you understand what I am saying?

The new covenant was made with all who believe and accept Christ.

No one has ever been grafted into Israel. All are grafted into God/Christ.

Under the new covenant - Jews are grafted into God/Christ - Gentiles are grafted into God/Christ.

Jews are branches. Gentiles are branches. God/Christ is the root (and trunk).

Understand?

Go read Romans 11 very carefully.

Let me say again - be careful to not confuse the new covenant with Israel.
Click to expand...

I said grafted into the new covenant, not Israel. No one can approach God or be joined to him apart from the covenant.

It's analogous to the old covenant in which each male member was grafted into that covenant via circumcision; physical birth alone didn't do it because any that weren't circumcised were cut off.

Covenant relationship is the engrafting. It's the only way God deals with man.
 
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GaryA said:
Nope. Happened once - in 167 B.C. - and, will not happen a second time.
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There were more than one abomination that made desolate. How could the one in 167 BC be the one Jesus warned his disciples about in the 1st century AD? IMO that is why Jesus (or whoever made that parenthetical comment) said let him who reads understand
 
Jesus saying no man could take his life means no one could murder him unless he allowed it to happen. If Jesus needed to petition the father to save him from death, that means he didn't had the power of himself to do so. And Jesus never said he had the power to do so; he said he had the authority to lay down his life and receive it again.

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? Matthew 26:52-53​
 
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Both Jeremiah and Ezekiel mentioned abominations that made desolate, and in each case those abominations were done by Israel. So the precedent was set for Daniel to do the same.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Both Jeremiah and Ezekiel mentioned abominations that made desolate, and in each case those abominations were done by Israel. So the precedent was set for Daniel to do the same.
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They both speak of “abominations,” and they both speak of “desolation,” but they do not use the technical phrase “abomination of desolation” the way Daniel does.

So the claim is partly true, but imprecise.

Let’s look carefully.

🟦 The technical phrase comes from Daniel

The specific expression:

“abomination that makes desolate”
Hebrew: shiqqûṣ shōmēm

appears in:

Daniel 8:13

Daniel 9:27

Daniel 11:31

Daniel 12:11

That phrase is unique to Daniel.

🟦 What about Jeremiah?

Jeremiah repeatedly speaks of:

“abominations” (shiqqûṣîm)

the land becoming “desolate” (shāmēm)

For example:

Jeremiah 7:30 – “They have set their abominations in the house…”

Jeremiah 19:8 – Jerusalem will become “a desolation.”

Jeremiah 25:9–11 – the land shall become “a desolation.”

He combines the concepts — but not the fixed Daniel phrase.

🟦 What about Ezekiel?

Ezekiel also describes:

Idolatrous “abominations” inside the Temple (Ezekiel 8)

The glory departing

The city becoming desolate (Ezekiel 12, 33)

Ezekiel 8 is especially striking — he sees idols placed inside the Temple courts before Babylon destroys Jerusalem in 586 BC.

Again:
Abominations → Judgment → Desolation
But not the exact Daniel formula.

🔑 Why Daniel is different

Daniel fuses the ideas into a single prophetic technical term:

Not just abominations
Not just desolation
But an abomination that directly causes desolation.

That precise formulation is unique to Daniel.

When Jesus in Matthew 24 says:

“the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet”

He is specifically pointing back to Daniel — not Jeremiah or Ezekiel.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Daniel 9:27 says abominations (plural); Daniel 11:31 says the abomination; and Daniel 12:11 says an abomination. Let him who reads understand.
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Nothing in the history of Israel fulfills these specific parameters NOR THE TIME STAMPS AND SEQUENCE of Daniel 9, 7 and 12.
And certainly no series of events nor singular person fulfills the specific parameters of the beast of Revelation.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming, lying or denying.

In Matthew 24:15, Jesus says:
“the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet…”

He clearly anchors the event in Daniel.

So the primary interpretive control is Daniel — confirmed in Revelation.

2️⃣ What Daniel describes

Daniel ties the “abomination” to:

The stopping of sacrifice (Dan 9:27; 12:11)

A desecration of the sanctuary (Dan 11:31)

A period of 3½ years (time, times, half a time)

So Daniel gives:

Temple context

Covenant violation

Defined time span

3️⃣ What Revelation describes

The book of Book of Revelation describes:

A Beast exercising authority for 42 months (Rev 13:5)

An image of the Beast set up and worshiped (Rev 13:14–15)

A measuring of the Temple and 42 months of trampling (Rev 11:1–2)
 
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