Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[cv5]

The Abomination of Desolation
Daniel 9:27:
“On the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate…”
Jesus said in Matthew 24 this event would occur after His ascension and before His return.

 

[God-fearing]

The Father did not murder his son, the romans were the ones certain Jews used in order to murder Jesus. Murder is the killing of an innocent man according to the law.

Question for you my friend.....this will probably get a lot of feedback back.

Did Jesus die because of wounds? Loss of blood? In short did he die because of what he endured?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus died because it was finished; the price had been paid.

 

[God-fearing]

Jesus died because it was finished; the price had been paid.

What caused his death. Why do you dance around a simple direct question? Surely you see a hole in the theology of the abomination of desolation was the death of Christ. Which would change the narrative of the conversation.
In fact Jesus himself answered this whole thing without spiritualising showing who he was.
This should be Christianity 101 for many but it really seems to be ignored in order to project false beliefs.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus died like everyone dies - he gave up the spirit.

 

[cv5]

Jesus died like everyone dies......

Absolutely not.
Jesus was in total complete control of his deliverance, trial, crucifixion, death, burial and resurrection. To the most minute nanosecond detail.

We are DEFINITELY cannot say the same.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Then Abraham gave up the spirit, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people. Genesis 25:8​

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And Isaac gave up the spirit, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him. Genesis 35:29​

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When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the spirit. John 19:30​

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Then Abraham gave up the spirit, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people. Genesis 25:8​

​

And Isaac gave up the spirit, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him. Genesis 35:29​

​

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the spirit. John 19:30​

John 10:18 "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord."

No one else has this ability - only Jesus.

Plus His death was not just a physical event but a substitutionary atonement—a public, sacrificial death fulfilling Old Testament prophecies (e.g., Isaiah 53), fulfilling the requirement that "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins" (Hebrews 9:22). None of our own deaths will do this - only Jesus'.


🕊

 

[Beekeeper]

Daniel 9:27:
“On the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate…”

That ESV translation has a different spin on it from the KJV:

Daniel 9:27 ... and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I am biased towards the KJV when looking for accuracy, though I sometimes use the ESV for people who struggle with the old language.

And if you did not know, no Roman ruler, no Jewish leader, no treaty, no covenant was ever made before Jerusalem fell.
Titus did not make a peace covenant.
He came to destroy, not to confirm.
This alone kills the 70-AD theory.

To conclude the 70 weeks in 70AD would also involve a gap of years.
The gap seems to be an entire different religion of its own, and I am not a Gappist.
The view that I have expressed is that "he" in v.27 is the Messiah.

Jesus confirmed the covenant with many of the Jews.
We call it the New Testament

No Roman leader ruled Israel for 3½ years demanding worship.
No emperor image was set up in the Temple.
No global religious enforcement existed.

There is much about Antioch in Daniel 11.
If you think Daniel 11 is about a future antichrist that will be a game-changer, raising more questions.
I understand that he put a statue of Jupiter Olympus in the sanctuary

Anyway, you have got me curious about the Gappist religion.
How do you guys answer simple Bible questions.

Who does the New Testament say are the children of Abraham?

 

[Beekeeper]

The other will set up the abomination in the holy place.

True, but that did not happen within the time of the 70 weeks.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Anyone can lay down their life of their own accord

 

[cv5]

True, but that did not happen within the time of the 70 weeks.

You do realize that this is exactly what I have been saying constantly non-stop on this thread?

Reread my posts. If you are able.

The abomination of desolation WILL happened YET FUTURE.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

That ESV translation has a different spin on it from the KJV:

Daniel 9:27 ... and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I am biased towards the KJV when looking for accuracy, though I sometimes use the ESV for people who struggle with the old language.

The word means extremity, so for the extreme amount of abominations he shall make it desolate

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No sacrifice ever sacrificed itself. That's just absurd and called suicide. People can lay their lives down and allow themselves to be sacrificed, but they are merely submitting to another's violence.

 

[God-fearing]

Let's do a interview with Jesus himself.

Reporter...........Jesus was it the jews or the romans you blame for your death?

Jesus....Jhn 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[God-fearing]

No sacrifice ever sacrificed itself. That's just absurd and called suicide. People can lay their lives down and allow themselves to be sacrificed, but they are merely submitting to another's violence.

Total denial right here....sad

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

What Jesus was saying in John 10:18 is that he had the authority to place himself as a sacrificial lamb in mens' hands to be killed, and also he had the authority to receive his life back at the appointed time, ie., the end of 3 days and nights in the grave

 

[God-fearing]

What Jesus was saying in John 10:18 is that he had the authority to place himself as a sacrificial lamb in mens' hands to be killed, and also he had the authority to receive his life back at the appointed time, ie., the end of 3 days and nights in the grave

Then you missed something here.....what time did jesus according to scripture die?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

What Jesus was saying in John 10:18 is that he had the authority to place himself as a sacrificial lamb in mens' hands to be killed, and also he had the authority to receive his life back at the appointed time, ie., the end of 3 days and nights in the grave

No one else can lay their life down and take their life back - only Jesus. Can you do this? No.


🕊

 

[Beekeeper]

You do realize that this is exactly what I have been saying constantly non-stop on this thread?

Reread my posts. If you are able.

The abomination of desolation WILL happened YET FUTURE.

I am aware of that, but you and I still have different conclusions.

I have not yet covered Mathew 24 with you.
My view of v.15 (the abomination of desolation) is that Daniel spoke of it in Daniel 11:31.
it refers to an event that happens after the weeks of ch.9, and it has to do with Antioch and his statue.
Never the less if I was a practical minded believer living in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus' warning I would not wait around after seeing the Holy of Holies exposed to the public and unbelieving Levites carrying out business as usual. I would pack up the kids and pregnant wife and go. I think this is how Jesus intended His warning to be understood too.

Mathew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Another area where I agree with you, though only in part, is that Jesus answeres 3 questions in the chapter.

Mathew 24:3.... the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus speaks about the destruction of the Temple, the time of His coming and the end of the world.
There is a connection between the 3 subjects, and that is why it can be called the greatest tribulation ever to happen.
The tribulation does not all come in the time of Antioch, but it continues after and is not yet complete.