Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[cv5]

So using your calendar straightforwardly without the gap, we get to AD 40.
That gets us into a time when Christ is risen.

Have the goals in Daniel 9:24 of the seventy weeks been fulfilled at that time?

1. to finish the transgression, and
2. to make an end of sins, and
3.to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to
4.bring in everlasting righteousness, and to
5.seal up the vision and prophecy, and to (see Luke 16:16)
6. anoint the most Holy.

Yes, Jesus had already fulfilled all of that by AD40.

40AD huh. That's your timestamp on Matt 24:15-30? All done and done right then the whole shebang? You say it all went down 40AD? You say that Christ is risen 40AD right?

What you opine is probably the most ridiculous proposal I have heard on CC and boy I have heard some whoppers.

Mat 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

Mat 24:16 - Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mat 24:21 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[cv5]

Here is my quote:
"So Gentiles believers who were once strangers to the commonwealth of Israel are now one with Jewish believers in Christ. There is no middle wall of partition between them and they are not foreigners, fellow citizens in the household of God."

Now slow down and read the passage I was referring to:

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, and STRANGERS from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath BROKEN DOWN THE MIDDLE WALL OF PARTITION BETWEEN US;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of TWAIN ONE NEW MAN, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and FOREIGNERS BUT FELLOW CITIZENS with the saints, and of the household of God;

Can you see the connection now?

Lol. What has that to do with a prophecy given to Daniel (a old testament saint), his people the sons of Jacob, his nation Israel, his holy city Jerusalem, and the restitution of all things Jewish?

None of which happened in 33AD, 40AD (???? ), or 70 AD.

Mat 17:11 - And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Mat 17:12 - “But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.”

Act 3:21 - Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Mal 4:5 - Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

 

[God-fearing]

I believe Gods word (prophecy) is to be seen by believers as well as none believers. The truth is light.
What good is it to those who believe in the spiritual only to see and we who are carnal mined as some say not see.
What kind of a testimony is that .
The revelation of Jesus Christ will be seen by the whole world. Not just for his chosen.
All of prophecy will play out according to the word and will manifest in real time on earth.
I believe in the spiritual as well as carnal as it is called. There may be events in the new testament that points to prophetic happenings but are yet to be fulfilled. These imo are shadows of things to come just as the old testament has.
These things have to be seen in order for those unbelieving to make a decision on whom they will serve.
Gods word has to come to pass and be fulfilled. David's throne was never in heaven. Not one word of God shall pass untill all is fulfilled.
It remains to be fulfilled on earth untill all shall pass and a new heaven and earth takes place.

 

[Beekeeper]

Lol. What has that to do with a prophecy given to Daniel (a old testament saint), his people the sons of Jacob, his nation Israel, his holy city Jerusalem, and the restitution of all things Jewish?

You really need to take a few deep breaths there my friend.
You just responded to a different conversation about a different subject, ie nothing to do with Daniel.

 

[Beekeeper]

40AD huh. That's your timestamp on Matt 24:15-30? All done and done right then the whole shebang? You say it all went down 40AD? You say that Christ is risen 40AD right?

What you opine is probably the most ridiculous proposal I have heard on CC and boy I have heard some whoppers.

Mat 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

Mat 24:16 - Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mat 24:21 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

You suggested that 69 weeks were completed in AD33, so that would make week 70 finish in AD40.
I am not certain that the date is exact either.

Daniel also tells us about things that happen outside this time period, and I suspect that he does that in Daniel 9:26 when he adds to the main point:

"and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

I think "the people of the prince" are Romans.

The subject matter "he" in v.27 is the Messiah, not the people of the prince..

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus caused the sacrifice to cease by being the final sacrifice.
The overspreading of abominations is sin.
The sacrifice and oblation is made desolate because it is not acceptable to God, and that will be the case even until the "consummation"
(I think that will be the final judgement day)

So what has been determined to be "poured on the desolate"?
I don't know, but I do not think it is finished yet.

 

[Beekeeper]

and to anoint the most Holy (TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM).

No, the most Holy is Jesus Christ.
He is anointed as King.

They anoint kings, not temples.
A third temple made with hands would also be an insult to God, not holy.
Jesus is the third temple too.
John 2:19

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No, the most Holy is Jesus Christ.
He is anointed as King.

It's really amazing and a sign of our deceived times that after all that has been revealed about Christ a Christian would think otherwise and believe it means a building.

But the Most High does not dwell in temples made by hand, as the prophet says, "Heaven is My throne, and the earth a footstool of my feet; what house will you build Me? " says the lord," or "what the place of My rest?" "Did not My hands make all these things?" Stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and in ears, you always oppose the Holy Spirit. As your fathers, you also. Acts 7:48-51​

 

[cv5]

You suggested that 69 weeks were completed in AD33, so that would make week 70 finish in AD40.
I am not certain that the date is exact either.

Daniel also tells us about things that happen outside this time period, and I suspect that he does that in Daniel 9:26 when he adds to the main point:

"and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

I think "the people of the prince" are Romans.

The subject matter "he" in v.27 is the Messiah, not the people of the prince..

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus caused the sacrifice to cease by being the final sacrifice.
The overspreading of abominations is sin.
The sacrifice and oblation is made desolate because it is not acceptable to God, and that will be the case even until the "consummation"
(I think that will be the final judgement day)

So what has been determined to be "poured on the desolate"?
I don't know, but I do not think it is finished yet.

"27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus caused the sacrifice to cease........."

Good grief.....so now you are telling us that Holy Jesus God Messiah is actually the "man of sin", the anti-Christ?

Well let me tell you that Daniel, Paul, Jesus, and Revelation lock together with mathematical precision.


Below is the full prophetic triangle:

Daniel 9:27 ←→ 2 Thessalonians 2 ←→ Revelation 13​

All three describe the same man, the same moment, and the same crime.


1. Daniel 9:27 — The Blueprint

“He shall confirm a covenant with many for one week…
but in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease…
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate…”​

Daniel tells us:

• A 7-year covenant
• A midpoint betrayal
• A temple desecration

But Daniel never tells us how or who does this.


Paul does.


2. Paul reveals the man
2 Thessalonians 2:3–4

“That man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God…
so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”​

Paul gives three explosive details:


Daniel 9:27 Paul Abomination
Man sits in God’s temple Stops sacrifices
Declares himself God - Midpoint - ‘The man of sin is revealed’

This is not vague symbolism.
Paul describes a literal man in a literal temple committing the exact abomination Daniel predicted.


3. Paul gives the timing
2 Thessalonians 2:6–7

“He who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
Then shall that Wicked be revealed…”​

This tells us:

• The Antichrist cannot appear until the Restrainer is removed
• When he is removed → the midpoint event occurs

That aligns with:
Daniel: “in the midst of the week”
Revelation: Satan cast down (Rev 12)


4. Revelation shows how it happens
Revelation 13:3–4

“One of his heads was wounded to death…
and the dragon gave him his power…”​

This is when:

• The Antichrist is Satan-possessed
• He becomes more than a man
• He now claims divinity

This is why Paul says:

“He shows himself that he is God.”​

5. The image — the abomination itself
Revelation 13:14–15

“He commands those on the earth to make an image…
and it was given breath to the image…
and as many as would not worship it should be killed.”​

Jesus said:

“When you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place…” (Matthew 24:15)​

Daniel predicted it
Paul identified the man
Revelation shows the mechanism


All three describe:
A living image
In the Temple
Demanding worship


6. Paul confirms the 3½-year reign
2 Thessalonians 2:8

“Whom the Lord shall consume with the brightness of His coming.”​

Paul places the destruction of the Antichrist at:
The Second Coming


Which Revelation gives as:
42 months after he takes power (Rev 13:5)


That is:
The second half of Daniel’s week


The Prophetic Lock

Daniel Paul Revelation 7-year covenant
Restrainer removed
White horse rider
Midpoint - Man of sin revealed
Deadly wound healed
Temple desecration
Sits in Temple
Image installed3½ years
Reign until Christ comes - 42 months
Destroyed By Christ’s appearing - Thrown into fire

Why this destroys Preterism

I have been arguing (correctly) that:

Israel’s redemption and Messiah belief happen after the Tribulation​

Paul agrees.


He says:
The Antichrist is destroyed
By the visible coming of Christ
Not in AD 70


And Revelation agrees:
He is cast alive into the lake of fire
Not into history

 

[cv5]

You really need to take a few deep breaths there my friend.
You just responded to a different conversation about a different subject, ie nothing to do with Daniel.

Of course Daniel has nothing to do with the Church. Absolutely nothing, nor does Matt 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13.
That's what I have been saying all along. Try and keep up will you?

Paul of course AGREES with me! And of course Paul clearly declares that NONE OF THIS affects the Church!
We will be RAPTURED beforehand. Another doctrine that Paul lays out quite unequivocally.

****************************************************************************************************

Paul builds his entire end-time doctrine on Daniel 9 and Daniel 12. The Holy Spirit uses Paul to interpret Daniel for the Church.


Here are the exact passages where Paul is commenting on Daniel.


Daniel 9 → Paul

Daniel 9 gives the Antichrist, the 7-year covenant, and the abomination.
Paul explains who that man is and what he does.


Daniel 9:27

“He shall… cause the sacrifice and offering to cease…
and on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate…”​

Paul’s commentary:
2 Thessalonians 2:3–4

“That man of sin… sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”​

Daniel: abomination
Paul: man sits in the Temple


Same event.


Daniel 9:26

“The people of the prince who is to come…”​

Paul:
2 Thessalonians 2:9

“That lawless one… whose coming is according to the working of Satan…”​

Daniel’s coming prince = Paul’s lawless one


Daniel 9:27

“He shall confirm a covenant…”​

Paul:
2 Thessalonians 2:10

“They did not receive the love of the truth…”​

Paul explains why Israel and the world accept the covenant — deception.


Daniel 12 → Paul

Daniel 12 is about:

• The Great Tribulation
• The Resurrection
• The Deliverance of Israel

Paul directly teaches all three.


Daniel 12:1

“There shall be a time of trouble such as never was…
and at that time your people shall be delivered.”​

Paul:
Romans 11:26–27

“All Israel shall be saved… when I take away their sins.”​

Daniel says Israel is delivered
Paul says Israel is saved


Same moment.


Daniel 12:2

“Many who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake…”​

Paul:
1 Corinthians 15:52

“The dead shall be raised…”​

Paul is teaching Daniel’s resurrection.


Daniel 12:7

“It shall be for a time, times, and half a time…”​

Paul:
2 Thessalonians 2:8

“Whom the Lord will destroy with the brightness of His coming.”​

Paul places Daniel’s 3½-year tyrant at the Second Coming.


Why this matters

Daniel left Israel with:

• A sealed prophecy (Dan 12:4)
• A future tyrant
• A future resurrection

Paul opens the seal and says:
The man is coming
He will sit in the Temple
Christ will kill him
Israel will be saved
The dead will rise


This is one unified prophecy — not split into AD 70 and the future.

 

[cv5]

Are you getting any of this @GaryA ?
The preterists and historicists are eating crow on this thread and are being exposed for what they are:
Biblically illiterate and tragically ignorant of even the basic fundamentals of eschatology.

 

[HeIsHere]

It's really amazing and a sign of our deceived times that after all that has been revealed about Christ a Christian would think otherwise and believe it means a building.

But the Most High does not dwell in temples made by hand, as the prophet says, "Heaven is My throne, and the earth a footstool of my feet; what house will you build Me? " says the lord," or "what the place of My rest?" "Did not My hands make all these things?" Stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and in ears, you always oppose the Holy Spirit. As your fathers, you also. Acts 7:48-51​

The problem is a lack of understanding of prophetic language and very inconsistent hermeneutic, sometimes it is literal when it fits the narrative and then symbolic when need be, one audience here, another audience of the future there.

That is just sloppy.

We read in Matthew 23:36
Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

This is regarded as indisputably as contemporary by the commentators... but then we go to Matthew 24 and that becomes future.

I guess we can expect this sometime in our future soon... oh wait is this literal or symbolic, let's flip a coin.

 

[cv5]

The problem is a lack of understanding of prophetic language and very inconsistent hermeneutic, sometimes it is literal when it fits the narrative and then symbolic when need be, one audience here, another audience of the future there.

That is just sloppy.

We read in Matthew 23:36
Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

This is regarded as indisputably as contemporary by the commentators... but then we go to Matthew 24 and that becomes future.

I guess we can expect this sometime in our future soon... oh wait is this literal or symbolic, let's flip a coin.

Well then by your own standard, this MUST have already occurred! Right?
So did it? Or not?

Mat 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

Mat 24:16 - Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mat 24:21 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[HeIsHere]

Well then by your own standard, this MUST have already occurred! Right?
So did it? Or not?

Mat 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

Mat 24:16 - Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mat 24:21 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

You know what I think, I think of the audacity of modern day Christians who year after year think they are the blessed "terminal" generation...... that they deserve to be scooped up to heaven when in actuality here are the Christians who were entitled to those blessings.

 

[cv5]

The problem is a lack of understanding of prophetic language and very inconsistent hermeneutic, sometimes it is literal when it fits the narrative and then symbolic when need be, one audience here, another audience of the future there.

That is just sloppy.

We read in Matthew 23:36
Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

This is regarded as indisputably as contemporary by the commentators... but then we go to Matthew 24 and that becomes future.

I guess we can expect this sometime in our future soon... oh wait is this literal or symbolic, let's flip a coin.
View attachment 285714

That is not any sort of legitimate response to Matt 24 passages I posted.

We read in Matthew 23:36
Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

So you MUST likewise assume that the Second Coming has already happened! Right?

Do you know what I think? I think that you are ducking out of the argument.
I think that you and @ChristRoseFromTheDead and others don't understand Bible prophecy and don't want to.

BTW, the OP is "Replacement theology? Yes or No."
This question hinges upon the question of whether there is legit Bible prophecy that
pertains to the redemption of an actual Nation Israel.

I have proven CONCLUSIVELY that the Nation Israel WILL in fact be redeemed,
so confirmed by Jesus, Paul, Peter and practically every prophet since Moses.
And this will only happen at the end of the Time of Jacob's trouble, the Great Tribulation.

*******************************************************************

Act 1:11
who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Zec 14:4
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

****************************************************************************

Acts 1:11 is one of the strongest anchors in all prophecy — it tells us how, where, and in what manner Jesus will return.


Let’s trace every passage that fulfills it.


Acts 1:11

“This same Jesus… will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”​

Jesus:

• Left bodily
• From the Mount of Olives
• Into visible clouds
• In front of witnesses

He must return the same way.


1. He returns in clouds — visibly
Matthew 24:30

“They shall see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”​

Revelation 1:7

“Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him…”​

This fulfills:
“as you saw Him go”


2. He returns to the Mount of Olives

Acts 1:12:

They returned from the Mount of Olives.​

Zechariah tells us where His feet land:

Zechariah 14:4

“His feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives…”​

Same mountain.
Same Jesus.


3. He returns as King and Warrior

Jesus left humbly.


He returns gloriously:

Revelation 19:11–16

“He who sat on the horse was called Faithful and True…​

the armies of heaven followed Him…”​

Same Person — but now crowned.


4. The earth reacts when He arrives
Revelation 16:18–20

“There was a great earthquake… and the mountains were not found.”​

Which Zechariah zooms in on:

Zechariah 14:4–5

“The Mount of Olives shall be split in two…”​

5. Israel sees Him and repents
Zechariah 12:10

“They shall look upon Me whom they have pierced…”​

This fulfills:
The same Jesus they rejected
Returns before their eyes


6. The Antichrist is destroyed
2 Thessalonians 2:8

“Whom the Lord will destroy with the brightness of His coming.”​

Revelation 19:20

“The beast was captured…”​

Acts 1:11 — fully fulfilled

Acts 1:11 Fulfilled by
Same Jesus Rev 19:11
Same manner Matt 24:30
Visible Rev 1:7
Cloud Matt 24:30
Same place Zech 14:4
Earth impact Rev 16:18
Witnessed Zech 12:10

Final truth

Jesus did not leave secretly.
He will not return secretly.


Acts 1:11 guarantees:
A visible
bodily
geographical
glorious
Second Coming.

**************************************************************************

Jesus deliberately quotes Daniel 7 about Himself and ties it directly to His Second Coming in the clouds, exactly as promised in Acts 1:11.


1. Daniel saw the coming Messiah
Daniel 7:13–14

“I saw in the night visions,​

and behold, one like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven…​

and to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom…”​

This is:
The Messiah
Coming with clouds
Receiving His Kingdom


Not spiritual.
Not symbolic.
Visible, royal, and global.


2. Jesus claims Daniel 7 for Himself

At His trial:

Matthew 26:64

“Hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”​

Jesus is quoting Daniel 7:13 word-for-word.


The High Priest tore his robe because:
Jesus was claiming to be Daniel’s divine Messiah
Who returns in clouds to rule the world


3. Jesus repeats Daniel 7 in Matthew 24
Matthew 24:30

“They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”​

Again:
Daniel 7
Acts 1
Revelation 1


All aligned.


4. Revelation confirms Daniel 7
Revelation 1:7

“Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him…”​

That is Daniel 7 + Acts 1 combined.


The locked prophecy

Daniel Jesus Revelation
Son of Man Jesus Jesus
Clouds Clouds Clouds
Kingdom Returns Reigns
All peoples All see All see

Why this matters

Preterism and historicists claims:

Christ “came” spiritually in AD 70.​

But Daniel 7, Matthew 26, Acts 1, and Revelation 1 all require:
A visible
cloud-coming
global
royal
return.


That has never happened yet.

 

[cv5]

That is not any sort of legitimate response to Matt 24 passages I posted.

We read in Matthew 23:36
Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

So you MUST likewise assume that the Second Coming has already happened! Right?

Do you know what I think? I think that you are ducking out of the argument.
I think that you and @ChristRoseFromTheDead and others don't understand Bible prophecy and don't want to.

BTW, the OP is "Replacement theology? Yes or No."
This question hinges upon the question of whether there is legit Bible prophecy that
pertains to the redemption of an actual Nation Israel.

I have proven CONCLUSIVELY that the Nation Israel WILL in fact be redeemed,
so confirmed by Jesus, Paul, Peter and practically every prophet since Moses.
And this will only happen at the end of the Time of Jacob's trouble, the Great Tribulation.

*******************************************************************

Act 1:11
who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Zec 14:4
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

****************************************************************************

Acts 1:11 is one of the strongest anchors in all prophecy — it tells us how, where, and in what manner Jesus will return.


Let’s trace every passage that fulfills it.


Acts 1:11

“This same Jesus… will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”​

Jesus:

• Left bodily
• From the Mount of Olives
• Into visible clouds
• In front of witnesses

He must return the same way.


1. He returns in clouds — visibly
Matthew 24:30

“They shall see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”​

Revelation 1:7

“Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him…”​

This fulfills:
“as you saw Him go”


2. He returns to the Mount of Olives

Acts 1:12:

They returned from the Mount of Olives.​

Zechariah tells us where His feet land:

Zechariah 14:4

“His feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives…”​

Same mountain.
Same Jesus.


3. He returns as King and Warrior

Jesus left humbly.


He returns gloriously:

Revelation 19:11–16

“He who sat on the horse was called Faithful and True…​

the armies of heaven followed Him…”​

Same Person — but now crowned.


4. The earth reacts when He arrives
Revelation 16:18–20

“There was a great earthquake… and the mountains were not found.”​

Which Zechariah zooms in on:

Zechariah 14:4–5

“The Mount of Olives shall be split in two…”​

5. Israel sees Him and repents
Zechariah 12:10

“They shall look upon Me whom they have pierced…”​

This fulfills:
The same Jesus they rejected
Returns before their eyes


6. The Antichrist is destroyed
2 Thessalonians 2:8

“Whom the Lord will destroy with the brightness of His coming.”​

Revelation 19:20

“The beast was captured…”​

Acts 1:11 — fully fulfilled

Acts 1:11 Fulfilled by
Same Jesus Rev 19:11
Same manner Matt 24:30
Visible Rev 1:7
Cloud Matt 24:30
Same place Zech 14:4
Earth impact Rev 16:18
Witnessed Zech 12:10

Final truth

Jesus did not leave secretly.
He will not return secretly.


Acts 1:11 guarantees:
A visible
bodily
geographical
glorious
Second Coming.

**************************************************************************

Jesus deliberately quotes Daniel 7 about Himself and ties it directly to His Second Coming in the clouds, exactly as promised in Acts 1:11.


1. Daniel saw the coming Messiah
Daniel 7:13–14

“I saw in the night visions,​

and behold, one like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven…​

and to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom…”​

This is:
The Messiah
Coming with clouds
Receiving His Kingdom


Not spiritual.
Not symbolic.
Visible, royal, and global.


2. Jesus claims Daniel 7 for Himself

At His trial:

Matthew 26:64

“Hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”​

Jesus is quoting Daniel 7:13 word-for-word.


The High Priest tore his robe because:
Jesus was claiming to be Daniel’s divine Messiah
Who returns in clouds to rule the world


3. Jesus repeats Daniel 7 in Matthew 24
Matthew 24:30

“They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”​

Again:
Daniel 7
Acts 1
Revelation 1


All aligned.


4. Revelation confirms Daniel 7
Revelation 1:7

“Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him…”​

That is Daniel 7 + Acts 1 combined.


The locked prophecy

Daniel Jesus Revelation
Son of Man Jesus Jesus
Clouds Clouds Clouds
Kingdom Returns Reigns
All peoples All see All see

Why this matters

Preterism and historicists claims:

Christ “came” spiritually in AD 70.​

But Daniel 7, Matthew 26, Acts 1, and Revelation 1 all require:
A visible
cloud-coming
global
royal
return.


That has never happened yet.

This code-word time stamp is quite unequivocally "end-times", and is entirely consistent in speaking to the time of Jacobs Trouble, the 70th week of Daniel.

Nobody in their right mind could fail to "get it", its just too obvious.
Therefore I am forced to conclude that the deniers willfully reject it.

Zec 14:4
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

 

[cv5]

Manna for the wise.......
Yes there is wiggle room IMO!

Hos 6:1
Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

Hos 6:2
After two days (2000 years) will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

End: ~mid-July 2041 AD minus 7 year tribulation = 2034 terminal date for the rapture.

*******************************************************************************


Let’s carefully calculate this step by step, using the 360-day “prophetic year” used in Daniel and Revelation.


We are adding 2,000 prophetic years to 70 AD (destruction of Jerusalem).


Step 1: Convert prophetic years to days

1 prophetic year = 360 days


So:

2000 years×360 days/year=720,000 days2000 \text{ years} \times 360 \text{ days/year} = 720,000 \text{ days}2000 years×360 days/year=720,000 days
Step 2: Convert days to solar years

Modern solar year = 365.2425 days (Gregorian calendar)

720,000÷365.2425≈1971.55 solar years720,000 \div 365.2425 \approx 1971.55 \text{ solar years}720,000÷365.2425≈1971.55 solar years
So 2,000 prophetic years ≈ 1971.55 solar years.


Step 3: Add to 70 AD

Start year = 70 AD

70+1971.55≈2041.5570 + 1971.55 \approx 2041.5570+1971.55≈2041.55
The decimal 0.55 of a year = 0.55 × 12 months ≈ 6.6 months


So 0.55 year ≈ mid-July.


Step 4: Approximate exact modern date

• Start: 70 AD
• Add 2,000 prophetic years
• End: ~mid-July 2041 AD

Answer
Approximately July 2041 AD on the modern Gregorian calendar

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Do you know what I think? I think that you are ducking out of the argument.
I think that you and @ChristRoseFromTheDead and others don't understand Bible prophecy and don't want to.

No, it's not that at all. I have decided for my sanity's sake to stop interacting with people who believe in a pre-trib rapture.

 

[cv5]

No, it's not that at all. I have decided for my sanity's sake to stop interacting with people who believe in a pre-trib rapture.

Oh yes, all of the legit Bible scholars understand the fact of the rapture.
As they do Daniels 70th week redemption of Israel, and all that Jesus and Paul and the prophets said about it and the DOTL!

You would think that Biblical literacy is a high calling that all would hearken to.
But tragically not so. Not in this day and age.

**************************************************************************

OT patterns confirm the pre-trib rapture:

-The Passover pattern
-The Jewish marriage protocol pattern

What needs to be understood is that God embeds prophetic patterns (“types”) in the Old Testament long before He reveals the doctrine plainly in the New Testament (1 Cor 10:11).

God removes or shelters the righteous before He pours out global or regional judgment.

Below are the major OT rapture-types that form a unified prophetic pattern.

1) Enoch — Removed before judgment

Genesis 5:24
“And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”

Enoch was:
• Righteous
• Walking with God
• Removed before the Flood (the greatest judgment in history)

This is the purest rapture type in the Bible.

Noah (Israel) goes through the Flood
Enoch (the Church) is taken out beforehand

This is not accidental — Hebrews 11:5 explicitly says Enoch was translated (Greek: metatithēmi = moved from one place to another without dying).

2) Noah & the Ark — Israel protected, Church removed

The Flood is the OT type of the Tribulation.

Person What happened Prophetic role
Enoch Taken away Church raptured
Noah Preserved through wrath Israel protected
World Judged Tribulation

Jesus directly linked His Second Coming to the days of Noah (Matthew 24:37).

The structure is identical to Revelation.

3) Lot — Removed before fire fell

Genesis 19:22
“Haste thee… for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither.”

God literally says:

“I cannot judge Sodom until Lot is gone.”

This is massive.

Lot is not a great saint — yet he is righteous (2 Peter 2:7-8).
God forcibly removes him before judgment falls.

Jesus explicitly ties Lot to end-time judgment in Luke 17:28-30.

4) Isaac — The bride never goes into the wilderness

In Genesis 24:

• Isaac (the son) stays home
• A servant (Holy Spirit) goes to get a bride
• Rebekah is taken to Isaac
• She never enters the wilderness

Israel goes through the wilderness
The Bride does not

This is the clearest picture of the Church being taken to Christ before Jacob’s trouble begins.

5) Joseph — The Gentile bride before the famine

Joseph is rejected by his brothers (Israel), then:

• Exalted to Gentile ruler
• Takes a Gentile bride
• Then the 7-year famine begins
• Then he is revealed to Israel

This is textbook:
Christ → Church → Tribulation → Israel restored

6) Ruth — The Church gathered before judgment

You already noted this one, but here’s the prophetic key:

• Ruth (Gentile bride) is married to Boaz
• Before Naomi (Israel) is restored
• Before famine ends
• Before the kingdom blessing comes

Ruth is not present during Israel’s time of national chastening — she is already in union with the Redeemer.

7) Elijah — Taken before Israel enters tribulation

Elijah is:
• Taken up
• Then Elisha ministers to Israel during a time of judgment and apostasy

Elijah = Church
Elisha = Israel’s prophetic witness during tribulation

Malachi 4 ties Elijah to the end times.

8) Rahab — Taken out before Jericho falls

Rahab (a Gentile believer) is:
• Sealed
• Removed
• Then judgment falls on the city

Again: rescued before destruction.

9) Daniel removed before the furnace

Daniel (a type of the Church) is absent from Daniel 3.

The three Hebrew men (Israel) go into the fire
Daniel (Church) is nowhere to be found

Exactly like Revelation: the Church is gone, Israel is refined.

10) The consistent rule

Throughout the OT:

God never pours out covenantal wrath on His redeemed people.

That is why:
• Enoch left
• Lot left
• Rahab left
• Ruth married
• Joseph’s bride secured
• Isaac’s bride sheltered
• Daniel absent
• Elijah taken

And then judgment comes.

Why this matters

The pre-tribulation rapture is not built on one verse — it is built on the entire architecture of Scripture.

It is how God has always worked.

“For God hath not appointed us to wrath…” (1 Thess 5:9)

 

[cv5]

You know what I think, I think of the audacity of modern day Christians who year after year think they are the blessed "terminal" generation...... that they deserve to be scooped up to heaven when in actuality here are the Christians who were entitled to those blessings.

The fact is.....you have no answer. Nor does any preterist or historicist.
@GaryA did a disappearing act to save face evidently.

You see:
Jesus directly linked His Second Coming to the days of Noah, a WORLDWIDE PHENOMENON (Matthew 24:37).

Luk 21:35 confirms this dire scenario:
For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Jesus compares His return to:
-A thief in the night ("night" a metaphor for the GT time of judgement)
-A snare
-A flood

So tell me, when did these things occur from 33AD or 70AD (or whatever) to the present day in terms of a worldwide event?
Any preterist or historicist care to hazard a guess?

**************************************************************************************

Mat 24:37
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:38
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:41
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

 

[God-fearing]

The problem is a lack of understanding of prophetic language and very inconsistent hermeneutic, sometimes it is literal when it fits the narrative and then symbolic when need be, one audience here, another audience of the future there.

That is just sloppy.

We read in Matthew 23:36
Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

This is regarded as indisputably as contemporary by the commentators... but then we go to Matthew 24 and that becomes future.

I guess we can expect this sometime in our future soon... oh wait is this literal or symbolic, let's flip a coin.
View attachment 285714

It doesn't sound like the crucifixion was a abomination to God to me but rather the opposite. When is victory a abomination?

Jhn 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jhn 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.