Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[Undergrace1]

It has taken place. You can't see it because you're viewing things from the world's POV.

Really? All of it?
I could ask you when all the nations of the earth surround Jerusalem and attacked it. God defeated their enemies, they looked on the one whom they pierced, and all the clans wept.
I could also ask you about much else, but I would not for one minute doubt your scholarly mind would come up with an answer to overturn all the plainly written verses of scripture I would give you, so I will pass

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

The preacher is Dr James Tour. He is a brilliant scientist, a fervent evangelist and knowledgeable about Israel's place in God's plan and purpose. It is quite long, but well worth hearing. Replacement people don't listen. You will have to change your minds if you do.

The video is very good! Thank you so much!

You may have to change tack and start talking about prophesies that already passed, like when Israel became a nation in one day or that all of Jerusalem was reunifed and under Israel’s full control when God had them win the Six-Day War.

The Jew-haters can pretend they can't see God’s promises for Israel in scripture, or that they already happened in the ancient past. I would just let them continue in their blindness. Who cares if they won't acknowledge what God is doing right now? Obviously their hate and blindness hasn't stopped God!

So emphasize what God has already brought to pass and glorify Him in this!

Israel became a nation in one day.
Jerusalem reunified and under Israel’s control.
Egypt at peace with Israel
World officially against Israel (set up for Armageddon)

All this God has already brought to pass! Opposition and hate against Him and His beloved Israel did not stop Him!

 

[faithlife]

• "Grafted In" (Not Replaced): Paul uses the metaphor of an olive tree in Romans 11, where Gentiles are "wild branches" grafted into the original Jewish tree. This signifies inclusion and expansion, not replacement.
• Literal Prophecies: Many Old Testament prophecies regarding the physical, literal restoration of the Jewish people to the land of Israel (e.g., Ezekiel 36-48) are spiritualized or ignored by replacement theology, say critics.

Replacement Theology is anti-semitism in disguise. God's vision is not their vision at all, for Israel.

 

[Aaron56]

Really? All of it?
I could ask you when all the nations of the earth surround Jerusalem and attacked it. God defeated their enemies, they looked on the one whom they pierced, and all the clans wept.
I could also ask you about much else, but I would not for one minute doubt your scholarly mind would come up with an answer to overturn all the plainly written verses of scripture I would give you, so I will pass

I could help you through them if you post some verses.

 

[Undergrace1]

I could help you through them if you post some verses.

Im sure you believe you could, but I will pass, thank you for the offer

 

[sawdust]

The one true church/believers exists in both the new and old testament, that is why replacement theology is not a thing, it is just something made up to disparage, throw shade on covenant theology.

So you don't see Israel's role and the Church's role as two different entities in two different places?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, illiterate because their view is also carnal, much like the mistake of the Pharisees and not just them but the their followers at that time, for which they suffered grievously.

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-22, 24‬ ‭

Carnal is a good word coming from the Old Testament without accepting the revelations and fulfillments of the new

As much as anyone can study the New Testament never promises a restoration of any earthly place or people . But rather makes new promises that have never been seen

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Some study relying on their natural minds to learn, others rely on the Holy Spirit to learn, the Holy Spirit who inspired the OT prophets to prophesy as they did. And never the twain shall meet

“the Holy Spirit who inspired the OT prophets to prophesy as they did”

amen . Prophecy

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And fulfillment

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. ……..and knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:21-23, 25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

ot law and prophets , nt fulfillment of the law and prophets. The holy ghost was foretelling through the prophets of the time the messiah would come to save them.

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:19-

The Holy Ghost indeed spoke through the prophets of the things we see in the nt the coming of the messiah

 

[Undergrace1]

“
The Holy Ghost indeed spoke through the prophets of the things we see in the nt the coming of the messiah

we agree, they prophesied of the coming Christ!!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

we agree, they prophesied of the coming Christ!!

Indeed but also many of the events of Jesus generation according to the law of Moses and prophets of Israel

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Gideon300]

He actually does very well... sticks with the word of God and understands in context, newspaper eschatology dispensationalists not so much.

Jeremiah 31:35-37

Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day, who sets in order the moon and stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—the LORD of Hosts is His name: “Only if this fixed order departed from My presence, declares the LORD, would Israel’s descendants ever cease to be a nation before Me.” This is what the LORD says: “Only if the heavens above could be measured and the foundations of the earth below searched out would I reject all of Israel’s descendants because of all they have done"......

I know that I'm the southern hemisphere so we are ahead of time here compared to the northern hemisphere. I can promise you that the sun came up and the moon is still orbiting the earth.

 

[Gideon300]

You should know that prophesy was upgraded after the appearing of the Son.

This is what Hebrews means:

"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds..."

The Son spoke as Jesus and He continued speaking through the apostles and prophets as Christ by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said as much: "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."

So, this is the grace given to the writers of the New Testament: The Son now speaks directly to those who have the Holy Spirit in them. This is called "revelation" and is essential for life in the Spirit.

The opposite life is like the life of Judas, who saw Christ as a great leader who would fight against the Romans. THIS is the same carnal view of eschatology that says flesh Israel is the same as Spiritual Israel - the same view that excuses murder because it is done by the hands of Jews of the flesh - As if they are above reproach because God gave them an arbitrary pass for any behavior because they are "His chosen people".

This is a straw man argument. No one on this forum that I know of claims physical Israel is the same as spiritual Israel. The truth is that physical Israel exists according to God's plan and purpose as revealed in God's word. There is no salvation apart from accepting Christ as Lord and saviour, whatever race or culture the individual is from. John Hagee preaches false doctrine when he claims the Jews will be saved apart from Christ.

The book of Revelation requires the physical nation of Israel to exist before the end of the age. The nations to the north cannot invade a nation that does not exist. I do not understand how anyone can claim that Israel is not the nation born in one day, or deny that Israel exists only because God ordained it. Israel only survives by God's power. It's not that hard to comprehend.

 

[Gideon300]

It has taken place. You can't see it because you're viewing things from the world's POV.

So the sun has stopped shining and the moon has taken a walk? Not where I live.

 

[Gideon300]

Maybe spend some time reading Flavius Josephus cause it all makes sense when one puts in context of the first century NOT 2000+ years into the future.

Ultimately, Christ Jesus was perfectly clear... when YOU see these things... spoken to the His disciples.
In Matthew 24 He uses YOU close 20+ times.

Tell me when the northern nations invaded Israel and were destroyed by God's direct intervention. Tell me when an earthquake opened a route from Jerusalem to the sea. Has Jesus descended to the mount of Olives? The book of Revelation has yet to be fulfilled. I was required to study various points of view in a Bible course many years ago. The denomination promoted the historicist view although the others were covered also. 40 years later, well you know what I believe now.

The disciples asked Jesus two different questions. One question was answered and fulfilled by the destruction of the temple and the diaspora. The other question has not yet been fulfilled.

 

[Gideon300]

“You do not know God's plan and purpose as revealed in scripture. You do not understand God's covenant with Israel. Try studying scripture.”

I know that israel
Broke thier covenant God made with them as he said they would and promised to make a new one later ….here’s the scripture

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31

I also have taken the time to read Israel’s covenant law that declares what would happen if they broke it.

The idea Israel’s covenant was without condition based on thier behavior is uninformed . Or that they didn’t brake it also uninformed or that God didn’t make a new covenant when Jesus came forth also uninformed and almost biblically illiterate

Like I said, your grasp of scripture is limited to say the least. Jesus did not make a new covenant with Israel. He made it with believers. The new covenant with Israel is yet to come to pass.

God brought the Jews back from the nations so He could restore them to Himself. That is happening to some extent now. God will deal with Jews in Israel. They will suffer a great deal. Then they will repent and turn back to God. It's all in the Book.

 

[Undergrace1]

Indeed but also many of the events of Jesus generation according to the law of Moses and prophets of Israel

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Don't see how the following could have taken place when Christ walked this earth:
For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. Ez36:24:28

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So the Holy Spirit inspired the old testement prophets to write down what He knew would never take place?

your just missing parts of the information of how he was going to fulfill the prophets promises.

here’s a really clear and simple example.

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers,

lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭4:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is already fulfilled just not how everyone thinks. But if you let Jesus interpret the prophets

“But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:9-10, 13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if a person doesn’t hear Jesus teaching about this they could never know it or believe it because r u derstsnd the ot prophetic writing according to Jesus revelation about John the Baptist.

“And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things. ( they are right to say it ) But I say unto you, That Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭17:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is what someone was saying earlier the obarisees and teachers ofnthe lae weren’t understanding that the promises of the prophets were coming to pass before thier eyes . Thier king promised king and messiah , the line voice crying in the desert salvation to israel !! The promise of Elijah the prophet the promise of the son who would be born and rule all creation whos kingdom would never end

instead of recognizing it and responding to johns calls to repentance and faith in Christ who was to come shortly or accepting Jesus and his word they beheaded John , and denied thier king and messiah and called for his crucifixion as a blasphemer.

That truly was the final offense of the ot nation against zgod that brought the conclusion of the old covenant upon them as the curse . Israel’s promises are only in Jesus Christ like everyone else’s and they aren’t for lands in this earth if you closely and further examine you’ll find out God was promising israel he was going to make a new earth and that there is where they will be restored. That’s where he would remember the covenant he made with ancient isreal.

before any of that can happen jesus has to return from heaven culminating in the destruction of this whole world in blazing fire which will be where the ungodly are punished . This earth and heaven we know the one Gid created in the beginning.

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ( lake of fire )

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All the restorations are going to happen even the heaven and earth will be made new as our bodies will be made new we aren’t going to be raised up for life again in this earth but for an eternal world long promised to all nations through Abraham and all the prophets of Israel. Lots of times it’s just about seeing how Jesus interprets or how Paul interprets an Old Testament prophecy because the New Testament is the fulfillment and revelation of the old like seeing the covenant without a veil without the shadows and carnality it was restraining in them

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Undergrace1]

your just missing parts of the information of how he was going to fulfill the prophets promises.

here’s a really clear and simple example.

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers,

lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭4:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is already fulfilled just not how everyone thinks. But if you let Jesus interpret the prophets

“But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:9-10, 13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if a person doesn’t hear Jesus teaching about this they could never know it or believe it because r u derstsnd the ot prophetic writing according to Jesus revelation about John the Baptist.

“And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things. ( they are right to say it ) But I say unto you, That Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭17:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is what someone was saying earlier the obarisees and teachers ofnthe lae weren’t understanding that the promises of the prophets were coming to pass before thier eyes . Thier king promised king and messiah , the line voice crying in the desert salvation to israel !! The promise of Elijah the prophet the promise of the son who would be born and rule all creation whos kingdom would never end

instead of recognizing it and responding to johns calls to repentance and faith in Christ who was to come shortly or accepting Jesus and his word they beheaded John , and denied thier king and messiah and called for his crucifixion as a blasphemer.

That truly was the final offense of the ot nation against zgod that brought the conclusion of the old covenant upon them as the curse . Israel’s promises are only in Jesus Christ like everyone else’s and they aren’t for lands in this earth if you closely and further examine you’ll find out God was promising israel he was going to make a new earth and that there is where they will be restored. That’s where he would remember the covenant he made with ancient isreal.

before any of that can happen jesus has to return from heaven culminating in the destruction of this whole world in blazing fire which will be where the ungodly are punished . This earth and heaven we know the one Gid created in the beginning.

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ( lake of fire )

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All the restorations are going to happen even the heaven and earth will be made new as our bodies will be made new we aren’t going to be raised up for life again in this earth but for an eternal world long promised to all nations through Abraham and all the prophets of Israel. Lots of times it’s just about seeing how Jesus interprets or how Paul interprets an Old Testament prophecy because the New Testament is the fulfillment and revelation of the old like seeing the covenant without a veil without the shadows and carnality it was restraining in them

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Thank you for your thoughts

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

I find it weird that people who think that the prophecy of a nation being born in a day has nothing to do with being born again with the Holy Spirit.
Or how the state of Israel has worldly riches which some people contribute to Gods blessings connected with the supposed fulfillment of a nation being born in a day,yet it's leadership has no spiritual riches to show of.

Luke:20-21
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[Undergrace1]

I find it weird that people who think that the prophecy of a nation being born in a day has nothing to do with being born again with the Holy Spirit.
Or how the state of Israel has worldly riches which some people contribute to Gods blessings connected with the supposed fulfillment of a nation being born in a day,yet it's leadership has no spiritual riches to show of.

Luke:20-21
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

There is a lot weird in this thread, people believe the following has already happened:
A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

6 On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.

8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.

10 The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up high from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses, and will remain in its place. 11 It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.

12 This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. 13 On that day people will be stricken by the Lord with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another. 14 Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. 15 A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.

16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. 18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord[b] will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.

20 On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. 21 Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite[c] in the house of the Lord Almighty.
Zech14