What does Jesus mean when He said do not the "vain repetition" warned against in Matthew 6:7? Does that meaning chanting, or calling to prayer? What are your thoughts?
Repetitious Prayer
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God wants His people to speak with Him about all things with an open and receiving heart. Speaking the same thing over and over or by repetition makes one an automated system and not a being made to have communion with Him.
Catholic hail marys and our Father comes into mind. Not that the Our Father prayer is vain and repetitious babbling. But if you say it three times in a row, it becomes that in my opinion.
I would also like to make the distinction of being perseverent in prayer That is something the Bible instructs us to be, so to pray the same thing daily is not a vain repetition, it is being stedfast in prayer and is a positive thing. If you say the same prayer 50 times a row, now it is just vain repetition.
I would also like to make the distinction of being perseverent in prayer That is something the Bible instructs us to be, so to pray the same thing daily is not a vain repetition, it is being stedfast in prayer and is a positive thing. If you say the same prayer 50 times a row, now it is just vain repetition.
You dont pray for a loved one daily? Only one and done? Keep knocking until it is opened. That is what I would say.
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
I trust God. He is not forgetful. He cares more about my loved ones than even I do. I think that knock and keep knocking is a misinterpretation. The scripture says that God is a good God who knows how to give good gifts even better than a father. I don't make my son's beg for food or anything that they need. I don't think that our father in heaven makes us beg for the things that we need either.
I am very sure that you and I do not pray the same way, which is not a criticism of you.
No critique in what I said either. I just ask the same thing daily until it happens and even if it does not.
Could you explain to me how you view the knock and keep knocking thing then? How would you interpret it
"rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer" -Romans 12:12
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
Knock and while you are in the middle of knocking before you are done the door is opened.
I don't believe that God is ignoring us or hoping that we will go away, but rather that he is there waiting for us to knock so that he can open the door.
So knock and while you are yet knocking the door shall be opened to you.
How many times did people have to ask Jesus to heal them before he healed them? They asked he supplied.
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
Think of the soldier who asked Jesus to heal a girl. He said you don't even have to come just say the words, because if you say the words it will be done.
Amen and amen!
Amen and amen!
The Roman Centurion has always been one of my favorites. Why? He probably knew of the Jewish Messiah prophecies since he was stationed there, but I would assume He wasn’t of the Jewish faith. The simple fact that he understood what Jesus was doing and the claims He made about himself was truly astonishing. All this whole being a foreign occupier. Wow!
I agree but what about my verse:
"rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer" -Romans 12:12
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
I think that life is full of enough problems that a person who is diligent about it can pray without ceasing at never repeat himself.
Not that I never pray about a thing more than once. It's not even that I am that diligent about it. Like I said if something is nagging me I pray about it. Even Paul said he prayed about the thorn in his side three times.
All I am saying is that God is good and God is faithful and God is sovereign, we can trust him, and we don't have to ask over and over and over for the same thing repetitively. We don't have to pray everyday about the same thing in order to get God to move. He is not lazy nor is he resistant, he wants to give us good things. So in my weakness as I help my weakness, in my lack of faith I say help my unbelief, had my joy I express my gratitude. It's a simple as that for me. I am the type of person that has to keep it simple. Sometimes I cry out to the Lord like a baby in tears and sobs. Sometimes I have a pity party before the Lord, and sometimes I sing with joy
If God did not want us to repeat prayers God wouldn't have given us the Lord's prayer. I think this warning is about the word "vain".
Especially the old Jewish saints and the psalms have prayers that elevate our spiritual life if we use these prayers with our hearts and minds.
Especially the old Jewish saints and the psalms have prayers that elevate our spiritual life if we use these prayers with our hearts and minds.
Thanks for your responses. A standard pre-formatted prayer is often useful to help us remember what to include. I think Jesus was just warning us against chanting instead of prayer, with the vain repetitions.
Our prayers can and should take many forms. To pray without ceasing simply means to talk with the Lord often during your day. Like when you read a headline, ask what He thinks of it.
I address God formally and informally throughout the day. I think it healthy for our sake to formally address Him, at least once a day, to remember to respect Him properly. I think group prayer should be mostly formal.
Our prayers can and should take many forms. To pray without ceasing simply means to talk with the Lord often during your day. Like when you read a headline, ask what He thinks of it.
I address God formally and informally throughout the day. I think it healthy for our sake to formally address Him, at least once a day, to remember to respect Him properly. I think group prayer should be mostly formal.
Vain prayer focuses self and magnifies/ glorifies your problem. God doesn't want to hear nonsense, as it is babble to Him, especially if he isn't being magnified in it. If He isn't the star of the show, He doesn't even want to hear it... The proper prayer mindset should be to minimize the problem to your understanding of the power of God, and in doing so you can now come into the understanding of God being magnified before that problem. A lot of times when people pray, they do it coming from the mindset that the problem is the star, they are its captives, and God is nowhere to be found in that moment,or at least the understanding of Him is forgotten due to the realization and maximization of said problem. What they fail to understand is that, whatever is "bigger" than you, or before you, is your god/master, and you bow before it. When you come to God in prayer like this, there is no room for Him to be maximized, because that is His position, and it is seen as vain because it's all self.
God is egotistical according to (Exodus 20:3-5). He only wants to hear about His glory and what He is doing to your problem, based on the understanding and awareness/ knowledge that He is greater. And He only wants to hear it in a way that glorifies Himself as a result. (if you include Him). When people pray vain repetitious prayers, all they are really doing is bowing down before false gods and magnifying them as idols before God Himself in prayer.
Also chanting and reciting scripted mantras isn't something He is interested in hearing either. Real prayer is affirmation, agreement and magnification prophesying/ declaring in faith with what God has done or will do, and what you will do in response to His truth.... It's even in the word "amen" itself, as it means to agree. Jesus and David gave good examples of how prayers should be done.
God is egotistical according to (Exodus 20:3-5). He only wants to hear about His glory and what He is doing to your problem, based on the understanding and awareness/ knowledge that He is greater. And He only wants to hear it in a way that glorifies Himself as a result. (if you include Him). When people pray vain repetitious prayers, all they are really doing is bowing down before false gods and magnifying them as idols before God Himself in prayer.
Also chanting and reciting scripted mantras isn't something He is interested in hearing either. Real prayer is affirmation, agreement and magnification prophesying/ declaring in faith with what God has done or will do, and what you will do in response to His truth.... It's even in the word "amen" itself, as it means to agree. Jesus and David gave good examples of how prayers should be done.
It doesn't say that all repetition is vain. They angels cry 'holy, holy, holy.'
Repetition in song and praise is a different thing altogether, that is perfectly acceptable.
Jesus spoke about the practice of prayer, which the Pharisees loved to perform publicly. Rather than making prayer a matter between an individual and God, the Pharisees had turned it into an act to be seen by men—again, to demonstrate their supposed righteousness. Their prayers were directed not to God but to other men, and consisted of long, repetitive phrases (Mt 6:7).
Repetitions
rep - ḗ - tish´unz: In Mt 6:7 only, "Use not vain repetitions," for βατταλογέω, battalogéō (so Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus), a word found nowhere else and spelled variously in the manuscripts, battologeō in Codices K, L, M; etc., batologeō in Codices F G, blattologeō in Codex Bezae (probably influenced by the Latin blatero, "talk idly"); presumably connected with βατταρίζω, battarı́zō, "stammer," and perhaps formed under the influence of the Aramaic betā', "speak carelessly," or bāṭēl, "useless." Whether, however battalogeō means the constant repetition of the same phrase or the mechanical recitation of a long series of obscure or meaningless formulas (if, indeed, a distinction between the acts was thought of) cannot be determined. Either practice is abundantly evidenced as a "heathen" custom of the day, and either can be classed as "much speaking."
Repetitions
rep - ḗ - tish´unz: In Mt 6:7 only, "Use not vain repetitions," for βατταλογέω, battalogéō (so Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus), a word found nowhere else and spelled variously in the manuscripts, battologeō in Codices K, L, M; etc., batologeō in Codices F G, blattologeō in Codex Bezae (probably influenced by the Latin blatero, "talk idly"); presumably connected with βατταρίζω, battarı́zō, "stammer," and perhaps formed under the influence of the Aramaic betā', "speak carelessly," or bāṭēl, "useless." Whether, however battalogeō means the constant repetition of the same phrase or the mechanical recitation of a long series of obscure or meaningless formulas (if, indeed, a distinction between the acts was thought of) cannot be determined. Either practice is abundantly evidenced as a "heathen" custom of the day, and either can be classed as "much speaking."
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
Why don't yall complicate it a little.
Think about it. If some talked to you everyday and said the same thing, how long would you listen? If someone continually asked you to do stuff you are already doing how long would you listen?
When my children sing to me I listen, when they have a problem I listen,
When they want to share a story with me I listen, when they want to tell me about their day I listen, when they want to share their feelings and thoughts and ideas, I listen.
When they repeat themselves continuously I tell them they are engaged in a bad habit and to stop.
If they ask me for something I either give it to them or I say no. If they bother me about it after I answer them I correct them.
This ain't rocket surgery, it's talking to God.
Think about it. If some talked to you everyday and said the same thing, how long would you listen? If someone continually asked you to do stuff you are already doing how long would you listen?
When my children sing to me I listen, when they have a problem I listen,
When they want to share a story with me I listen, when they want to tell me about their day I listen, when they want to share their feelings and thoughts and ideas, I listen.
When they repeat themselves continuously I tell them they are engaged in a bad habit and to stop.
If they ask me for something I either give it to them or I say no. If they bother me about it after I answer them I correct them.
This ain't rocket surgery, it's talking to God.