Repentance and baptism
- Thread starter Monika
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Those examples helped. Ohhh! yes I do have a sin conscience but the way you said it is correct I need to change that to a Christ conscience.
“God wants your conscience purged by the blood of Christ. Unless this happens, you will never be able to serve Him because you will always be under the burden of sin” wow that is so true!!
You said some very good points and will have me thinking and will take onboard.
Thank you
“God wants your conscience purged by the blood of Christ. Unless this happens, you will never be able to serve Him because you will always be under the burden of sin” wow that is so true!!
You said some very good points and will have me thinking and will take onboard.
Thank you
-
1
- Show all
I watch a lot of Frank Turek and Nabeel Qureshi. I love watching videos that supports Christianity with evidence, debates on Christianity vs Islam ect. I feel like these are very beneficial if I was to share the word of God to people and they hit me hard questions I can answer. I actually have many questions myself and these videos have helped me personally and to grow in my own understanding.
If you recommend any other Christian Apologists to me that would be great.
Thank you
If you recommend any other Christian Apologists to me that would be great.
Thank you
-
1
- Show all
What if for example someone became born again about 15 or so years ago but you can see they their roots and they have bad fruits and have fallen away from God but somewhere in their hearts believe in it somewhat. They have slowly shifted away from God just as the verse says
Luke 8:13
13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.
Another also comes to mind
Mathew 13:3-9
3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed.4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred,(A) sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”(B)
Some believe once you are born again you are saved and some believe you must be born again and continue to repent (if so is repentance a must or a benefit to ourself and relationship with God) some think if you do not continue to repent frequently you are in danger. I’m not sure which one would be truth because that would make it black or white in a sense? And if the second one is true at what point do they become unsaved?
Thank you
Luke 8:13
13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.
Another also comes to mind
Mathew 13:3-9
3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed.4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred,(A) sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”(B)
Some believe once you are born again you are saved and some believe you must be born again and continue to repent (if so is repentance a must or a benefit to ourself and relationship with God) some think if you do not continue to repent frequently you are in danger. I’m not sure which one would be truth because that would make it black or white in a sense? And if the second one is true at what point do they become unsaved?
Thank you
-
1
- Show all
Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
https://biblehub.com/proverbs/9-10.htm
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
https://biblehub.com/proverbs/9-10.htm
-
1
- Show all
This is true as some do. But keep in mind it is not what they do as in works in trying to keep an immaterial moral scale in balance to outweigh the bad. It is all centered on faith. True faith, as the book of James, will be a faith of action. It is out of faith we repent. It is out of faith we put our hope and confidence in the assurance of salvation through Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 10:22-24
New International Version
22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds,
People who turn away, apostate, or fall away put their faith elsewhere. Scripture says it is worse for these people who have tasted grace but turned away. They are those who have essentially mocked Jesus's sacrifice with their continual sin of rebellion.
Hebrews 10:26-31
New International Version
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
For these types of people, we must pray for them and do what we can to try and reach them because ultimately, it is God's judgment. It is God's choice to avenge and repay.
It is theologically debated about Hebrews 6:4, is it impossible to ever seek repentance, or is it impossible while in the state of rebellion to seek repentance due to verse 8 that says- land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
They are in danger of being cursed. Still worthless in evil but in danger of being cursed.
Hebrews 6:4-8
New International Version
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
Then we also have the concept of where rebellion can eventually lead. If we as humanity resist all the nudges, all the evidence, all the callings, and messages of God. He may turn them over to their wicked ways completely. Only God knows if that is what will make them vulnerable to hear God, or He may eventually harden their heart until they are ripe with no excuse for judgment.
Romans 1:21-24
New International Version
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
Hebrews 3:8
English Standard Version
8 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
on the day of testing in the wilderness,
Exodus 9:12
English Standard Version
12 But the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had spoken to Moses.
Notice we can harden our hearts just as God can. Moses hardens his own heart multiple times before God started to harden his heart. Once God began to to harden his heart, it ultimately led to Pharaoh's death.
Hebrews 10:22-24
New International Version
22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds,
People who turn away, apostate, or fall away put their faith elsewhere. Scripture says it is worse for these people who have tasted grace but turned away. They are those who have essentially mocked Jesus's sacrifice with their continual sin of rebellion.
Hebrews 10:26-31
New International Version
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
For these types of people, we must pray for them and do what we can to try and reach them because ultimately, it is God's judgment. It is God's choice to avenge and repay.
It is theologically debated about Hebrews 6:4, is it impossible to ever seek repentance, or is it impossible while in the state of rebellion to seek repentance due to verse 8 that says- land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
They are in danger of being cursed. Still worthless in evil but in danger of being cursed.
Hebrews 6:4-8
New International Version
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
Then we also have the concept of where rebellion can eventually lead. If we as humanity resist all the nudges, all the evidence, all the callings, and messages of God. He may turn them over to their wicked ways completely. Only God knows if that is what will make them vulnerable to hear God, or He may eventually harden their heart until they are ripe with no excuse for judgment.
Romans 1:21-24
New International Version
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
Hebrews 3:8
English Standard Version
8 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
on the day of testing in the wilderness,
Exodus 9:12
English Standard Version
12 But the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had spoken to Moses.
Notice we can harden our hearts just as God can. Moses hardens his own heart multiple times before God started to harden his heart. Once God began to to harden his heart, it ultimately led to Pharaoh's death.
Here Is my 2cts
Its good to be uncomfortable because it maked you call out to God
Dont try to be perfect
Just be honest with The Lord
This Christian thing is an amazing process- get Baptized because it will tell your body and the world you are free
Find a Christian Friend and meet for prayer - and to tell each other your issues but then together pray about what ever is bothering you
Where ever 2 or more are gathered in Jesus name..HE IS THERE
For real!! Its an amazing thing
Its about connecting
Being honest
Freedom and joy is the result
Not fear and trepidation
Freedom and Joy!!
Read the bible because he speaks clearly thru the bible
And Relax..
HE That began a good work IN YOU
Is Faithful to complete it!
Its good to be uncomfortable because it maked you call out to God
Dont try to be perfect
Just be honest with The Lord
This Christian thing is an amazing process- get Baptized because it will tell your body and the world you are free
Find a Christian Friend and meet for prayer - and to tell each other your issues but then together pray about what ever is bothering you
Where ever 2 or more are gathered in Jesus name..HE IS THERE
For real!! Its an amazing thing
Its about connecting
Being honest
Freedom and joy is the result
Not fear and trepidation
Freedom and Joy!!
Read the bible because he speaks clearly thru the bible
And Relax..
HE That began a good work IN YOU
Is Faithful to complete it!
-
1
- Show all
I do fear the Lord and I like that verse. I never fully understood that until recent. Well that is also coming from someone that didn’t even know God made hell until about a month ago.
L
The one exception doesn't negate the rule, especially since it was impossible for him to do so because of his situation.
Since you mentioned him, let's take a look at him:
Luke chapter 23
[39] And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
[40] But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
[41] And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
[43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
This thief:
1. Feared God (vs. 40).
2. Knew that he was justly condemned (vss. 40-41).
3. Knew that Jesus had done nothing amiss or recognized that he was sinless (vs. 41).
4. Called Jesus "Lord" (vs. 42).
5. Believed in Jesus' coming kingdom, so he must have believed that Jesus would overcome death in order to bring it (vs. 42).
6. Desired to be a part of said coming kingdom (vs. 42).
7. Received a promise of being with Jesus in paradise (vs. 43).
The other thief?
Well, he only sought to be "saved" from his predicament (vs. 39), and he's apparently in hell.
What type of "salvation" are we seeking from Jesus?
Salvation from sin or merely salvation from situational problems?
That would be a good question for each of us to honestly ask ourselves before God.
Since you mentioned him, let's take a look at him:
Luke chapter 23
[39] And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
[40] But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
[41] And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
[43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
This thief:
1. Feared God (vs. 40).
2. Knew that he was justly condemned (vss. 40-41).
3. Knew that Jesus had done nothing amiss or recognized that he was sinless (vs. 41).
4. Called Jesus "Lord" (vs. 42).
5. Believed in Jesus' coming kingdom, so he must have believed that Jesus would overcome death in order to bring it (vs. 42).
6. Desired to be a part of said coming kingdom (vs. 42).
7. Received a promise of being with Jesus in paradise (vs. 43).
The other thief?
Well, he only sought to be "saved" from his predicament (vs. 39), and he's apparently in hell.
What type of "salvation" are we seeking from Jesus?
Salvation from sin or merely salvation from situational problems?
That would be a good question for each of us to honestly ask ourselves before God.
Unlike saving belief, shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.
John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted and established belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.
Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not believe unto salvation and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.
In the case of the thorny ground hearer, the plant was never firmly rooted and established in which it could produce fruit (even thought there was motion and movement toward becoming an established plant) but it was choked out before reaching it's desired goal because the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. (Mark 4:19). The word is choked and therefore does not produce a renewed spiritual life in the person.
IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Only the 4th soil produced crops of any size and was referred to as "good ground" and produced a crop (fruit) and there is no mention of choking or withering away afterwards.
John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted and established belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.
Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not believe unto salvation and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.
In the case of the thorny ground hearer, the plant was never firmly rooted and established in which it could produce fruit (even thought there was motion and movement toward becoming an established plant) but it was choked out before reaching it's desired goal because the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. (Mark 4:19). The word is choked and therefore does not produce a renewed spiritual life in the person.
IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Only the 4th soil produced crops of any size and was referred to as "good ground" and produced a crop (fruit) and there is no mention of choking or withering away afterwards.
-
1
- Show all
In Matthew 27:39-44, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and even the robbers who were crucified with him reviled him with the same thing. Yet, moments later, we see that one of the thieves had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and was saved. (Luke 23:40-43) True death bed conversion. Of course, he died before having the opportunity to be water baptized.
-
1
- Show all
L
Hi, Monika.
According to Jesus, properly understanding the parable of the sower is the key to understanding all of his parables.
We read:
Mark chapter 4
[1] And he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.
[2] And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,
[3] Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:
[4] And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.
[5] And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:
[6] But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.
[7] And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.
[8] And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.
[9] And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
[10] And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
[11] And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
[12] That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
[13] And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
[14] The sower soweth the word.
[15] And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
[16] And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
[17] And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
[18] And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
[19] And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
[20] And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
The first thing that I want you to notice is Jesus’ question to his disciples:
“Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?” (vs. 13)
Here, Jesus was informing his disciples that they would not be able to properly understand all of his other parables without first properly understanding this particular parable.
With such being the case, what did Jesus teach in regard to salvation in this parable?
Did he teach “once saved, always saved”, or did he, in reality, teach the polar opposite of the same?
In this parable, Jesus spoke of four different types of soil or four different conditions of the human heart with which the seed of God’s word makes contact.
In relation to the seed which “fell by the way side” (vs. 4), Jesus said:
“And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.” (vs. 15)
This first group of hearers, sad to say, is never “saved” to begin with in that Satan immediately takes away the word that is sown in their hearts. As such, “once saved, always saved” has no real relevance here.
In relation to the seed which “fell upon stony ground” (vs. 5), Jesus said:
“And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.” (vss. 16-17)
This group of hearers “when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness” and “endure but for a time”. Yes, as Jesus said in vs. 5, “immediately it sprang up” or immediately the word which was received had results in regard to salvation.
In the parallel account of this parable in Matthew’s gospel, this group of hearers “dureth for a while” (Matt. 13:21), and in the parallel account in Luke’s gospel, this group of hearers “for a while believe” (Luke 8:13). With such being the case, these hearers are “once saved”, but, sad to say, they are not “always saved” in that “when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word’s sake, immediately they are offended” or, as Luke’s account puts it, these hearers are those who “in time of temptation fall away” (Luke 8:13). One simply cannot “fall away” from something of which he or she was never a part to begin with, so Jesus was definitely NOT teaching “once saved, always saved” here.
In relation to the seed which “fell among thorns” (vs. 7), Jesus said:
“And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.” (vss. 18-19)
This group of hearers initially receive the word and bear fruit until the time comes that “the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful”. Something cannot “become unfruitful” unless it was first fruitful.
In fact, in the parallel account in Luke’s gospel, this group of hearers “bring no fruit to perfection” (Luke 8:14). Again, there was some initial growth in relation to “fruit”, but, sad to say, such got choked and it became unfruitful. No “once saved, always saved” here, either.
In relation to the seed which “fell on good ground” (vs. 8 ), Jesus said:
“And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.” (vs. 20)
Here’s what Jesus said about this group of hearers in Luke’s parallel account:
“But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.” (Luke 8:15)
It’s not enough to initially receive the word which is sown within our hearts, but we must “keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience”. In other words, as Jesus said elsewhere, it is only “he that endureth to the end” who “shall be saved” (Matt. 10:22, 24:13).
Were we to examine some of Jesus' other parables, then we would see that this same principle applies in them as well...no matter how hard some here (and elsewhere) kick against such truths.
According to Jesus, properly understanding the parable of the sower is the key to understanding all of his parables.
We read:
Mark chapter 4
[1] And he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.
[2] And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,
[3] Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:
[4] And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.
[5] And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:
[6] But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.
[7] And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.
[8] And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.
[9] And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
[10] And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
[11] And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
[12] That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
[13] And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
[14] The sower soweth the word.
[15] And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
[16] And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
[17] And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
[18] And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
[19] And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
[20] And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
The first thing that I want you to notice is Jesus’ question to his disciples:
“Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?” (vs. 13)
Here, Jesus was informing his disciples that they would not be able to properly understand all of his other parables without first properly understanding this particular parable.
With such being the case, what did Jesus teach in regard to salvation in this parable?
Did he teach “once saved, always saved”, or did he, in reality, teach the polar opposite of the same?
In this parable, Jesus spoke of four different types of soil or four different conditions of the human heart with which the seed of God’s word makes contact.
In relation to the seed which “fell by the way side” (vs. 4), Jesus said:
“And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.” (vs. 15)
This first group of hearers, sad to say, is never “saved” to begin with in that Satan immediately takes away the word that is sown in their hearts. As such, “once saved, always saved” has no real relevance here.
In relation to the seed which “fell upon stony ground” (vs. 5), Jesus said:
“And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.” (vss. 16-17)
This group of hearers “when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness” and “endure but for a time”. Yes, as Jesus said in vs. 5, “immediately it sprang up” or immediately the word which was received had results in regard to salvation.
In the parallel account of this parable in Matthew’s gospel, this group of hearers “dureth for a while” (Matt. 13:21), and in the parallel account in Luke’s gospel, this group of hearers “for a while believe” (Luke 8:13). With such being the case, these hearers are “once saved”, but, sad to say, they are not “always saved” in that “when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word’s sake, immediately they are offended” or, as Luke’s account puts it, these hearers are those who “in time of temptation fall away” (Luke 8:13). One simply cannot “fall away” from something of which he or she was never a part to begin with, so Jesus was definitely NOT teaching “once saved, always saved” here.
In relation to the seed which “fell among thorns” (vs. 7), Jesus said:
“And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.” (vss. 18-19)
This group of hearers initially receive the word and bear fruit until the time comes that “the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful”. Something cannot “become unfruitful” unless it was first fruitful.
In fact, in the parallel account in Luke’s gospel, this group of hearers “bring no fruit to perfection” (Luke 8:14). Again, there was some initial growth in relation to “fruit”, but, sad to say, such got choked and it became unfruitful. No “once saved, always saved” here, either.
In relation to the seed which “fell on good ground” (vs. 8 ), Jesus said:
“And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.” (vs. 20)
Here’s what Jesus said about this group of hearers in Luke’s parallel account:
“But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.” (Luke 8:15)
It’s not enough to initially receive the word which is sown within our hearts, but we must “keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience”. In other words, as Jesus said elsewhere, it is only “he that endureth to the end” who “shall be saved” (Matt. 10:22, 24:13).
Were we to examine some of Jesus' other parables, then we would see that this same principle applies in them as well...no matter how hard some here (and elsewhere) kick against such truths.
-
1
- Show all