Repent & be Baptized ISN'T the message for NT Church/Body of Christ.

[FlyingDove]

Repentance: Strong's HEBREW ( H7725:שׁוּב ) - to turn back, return, a wholehearted turning to God.
(MY NOTE: Repent translating in OT Hebrew vs NT Greek. John the Baptist (a OT preacher) wasn't speaking Greek nor was he speaking to any gentiles (exception proselytes) Find link here: H7725 - šûḇ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

OT Jewish repentance rituals: rending of garments, wearing sackcloth, sitting in ashes, putting ashes on top of his head, fasting, weeping, wailing. Every Jew at John's baptism was familiar with repentance/turning back to God rituals. (Joel 2:12-13).

The 10 days between the mandatory keep Feasts of: Rosh Hashanah/Trumpets & Yom Kippur/ Day of Atonement (holiest day of the yr) are known as the: 10 Days of Repentance/DAYS of RETURN/Days of Awe.

You can't paint/force gentiles into John's baptism:

Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(MY NOTE: Pre death & resurrection; Gentiles had NO relationship, were strangers living outside the covenant seals/promises, being without God. They were without hope)

Matt 1:
1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
(MY NOTE: John the Baptist, the son of a Temple priest/Zechariah. John was preaching in the wilderness of Judaea)

2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(MY NOTE: John is proclaiming; "Israel" Return to the Lord your God! Your God chosen promised King who literally come's from heaven: Jn 3:3, 16, 6:33, 38, 62, 8:23, 58, 16:28, 17:5, Col 1:16, 17, Heb 1:2 has arrived).

3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Eze 14:6 make's 2 declarations: Israel: REPENT! Turn away from your idols & other detestable practices. Return! to the LORD your God.

Repent NT - KJV Dictionary Definition: repentance

1) To change the mind in consequence of the inconvenience or injury done by past conduct.

2) To express sorrow for something past.

3. A change of mind, or a conversion from sin to God.

(MY NOTE: Repent/change you're mind, acknowledging God is & confessing your sins before Him, turning from unbelief to belief. And place your Faith in the Lord Jesus)

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
(MY NOTE: The key to this verse is found in the article "TOWARD". Repentance TOWARD God & faith TOWARD Christ)

In relation to salvation, repentance means to change your mind from unbelief/rejection of who Christ is to belief/acceptance of Christ as God's Son. More specifically placing one's faith in Jesus sin atoning sacrifice & resurrection.

Ultimately, there is only one sin that Jesus payment doesn't/won't remiss/forgive/pardon: Unbelief in & the rejection of, Christ's sin payment & resurrection, until/at life's end/death. (We all die Heb 9:27)

I believe the word repentance is the most misunderstood & misused word in Christianity. Invariably the word repentance is tied to everyday sins. Jesus added thoughts to the law (Matt 5:21-28) good luck controlling/repenting from every single one of them.

Jn 12:32 Jesus said; And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(MY NOTE: Jesus was in fact lifted up, on a cross & from the grave. Post resurrection, Everybody! is drawn to/offered salvation via God's Holy Spirit. Sadly, not everyone excepts/embraces it)

Jn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

NT Body of Christ message is Believe/have Faith in Christ's finished work. Found in Jesus death (sins required wage/PAID) burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (Father's receipt, sins required price/wage, received & accepted) See 1Cor 15:1-4. Amen

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Matthew 6
15But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours.

Matthew 12
1Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.

Acts 8
20But Peter replied, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21You have no part or share in our ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22Repent, therefore, of your wickedness, and pray to the Lord. Perhaps He will forgive you for the intent of your heart. 23For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and captive to iniquity.”

24Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me, so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”


Hebrews 6
1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do, if God permits.

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Mark 16
15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 22
16And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, and wash your sins away, calling on His name.’

Acts 10
46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.

Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.
.
Titus 3
5He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2
38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 3
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit

 

[FlyingDove]

When reading the 4 gospels one must understand, most of the content is OT doctrine. NT doctrine doesn't begin until after Jesus death & resurrection.

There are 2 assemblies: The pre-death & resurrection OT "Jew only" & the post death & resurrection NT Body of Christ assembly.

Whenever Jesus (while alive) is speaking/teaching, it's OT/old covenant doctrine.

When Peter is speaking at Pentecost (a mandatory Jewish attendance) he's addressing (Acts 2:14, 22, 36) Jews only!

It's not until Acts 10 (7 yrs after Acts 2 Pentecost) the Lord sends Peter (after Peter tries to resist) to open salvations door to gentiles.

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: Thru faith alone, (VIOD OF ANY ADHERENCE TO MOSAIC ANYTHING!) these gentiles are quickened (Eph 2:1, 2:5, Col 2:13) justified/receive a God given declaration of righteousness/placed in a right standing with the Father. Sealed/forever saved, by/with Christ's eternal life giving Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30)

Acts 11:
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
(MY NOTE: When these Jew heard how God granted to the Gentiles repentance that leads to eternal life (VIOD OF ANY ADHERENCE TO MOSAIC ANYTHING!). They stopped chastising Peter for keeping (unlawful see 10:28 below) company with gentiles & began praised God.)

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an """unlawful""" thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 10&version=KJV

Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(MY NOTE: All gentile's were aliens from physical Israel. Strangers living outside the covenants of promise, having no hope, living without God)

It's Acts 10 (7 yrs after Acts 2 Pentecost) where middle wall of partition (Eph 2:14-15) between Jew & gentiles is removed & the two become one

When people cite John the Baptist (baptizing Jews only in the wilderness of Judea (Mk 1:4-5) & Acts 2 Peter (preaching to Jews only (Acts 2:14, 22, 36). Adding NT Church believers to that message an incorrect covenant mixture.

Above recap:
The repent & be baptized message John & Peter message was pre gentile grafting (Jn 7:39). NT Body of Christ message is Believe/have Faith in Christ's finished sin atoning work. Found in Jesus death (sins required wage/PAID) burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (Father's receipt, sins required price/wage, received & accepted) See 1Cor 15:1-4.

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

It's not until Acts 10 (7 yrs after Acts 2 Pentecost) the Lord sends Peter (after Peter tries to resist) to open salvations door to gentiles.

Mark 16
15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Matthew 28
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Acts 8
27So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official in charge of the entire treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship,

37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.

39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, but went on his way rejoicing.

 

[FlyingDove]

I gave time time frames . I'll post Acts 10 this again:

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: Thru faith alone, (VIOD OF ANY ADHERENCE TO MOSAIC ANYTHING!) To include repentance of an kind! And water baptism comes later. After justification/salvation! These gentiles are quickened (Eph 2:1, 2:5, Col 2:13) justified/receive a God given declaration of righteousness/placed in a right standing with the Father. Sealed/forever saved, by/with Christ's eternal life giving Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30) By FATH ALONE! Adding any kind of self- works to salvation is mixing covenants.

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

What did Jesus Christ mean by

Mark 16
15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Matthew 28
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

 

[FlyingDove]

Jn 3:
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life [after physical death, and will actually live forever].

16 “For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] [a]only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life.

36 He who believes and trusts in the Son and accepts Him [as Savior] has eternal life [that is, already possesses it]; but he who does not believe the Son and chooses to reject Him, [disobeying Him and denying Him as Savior] will not see [eternal] life, but [instead] the wrath of God hangs over him continually.”
(MY NOTE: Vs 15-16, Whoever places their FAITH in Jesus, will never perish. Vs 36, Whoever has FAITH in the Son/Jesus HAS RIGHT NOW, eternal life. FAITH ALONE PERIOD!)

Eph 1:
13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].

14 The Spirit is the [e]guarantee [the first installment, the pledge, a foretaste] of our inheritance until the redemption of God’s own [purchased] possession [His believers], to the praise of His glory.
(MY NOTE: Vs 13, When you heard & placed your FAITH in His work, He Baptized you with His Holy Spirit. Vs 14, This Spiritual Baptism guarantees your salvation/eternal life promise. NO WATER USED!)

Eph 2:
8 For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through FAITH. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God; 9 not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation]. NO WATER!)

Rom 10:
9 because if you acknowledge and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord [recognizing His power, authority, and majesty as God], and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with the heart a person believes [in Christ as Savior] resulting in his justification [that is, being made righteous—being freed of the guilt of sin and made acceptable to God]; and with the mouth he acknowledges and confesses [his faith openly], resulting in and confirming [his] salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him [whoever adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him] will not be disappointed [in his expectations].
(MY NOTE: Vs 9, Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord & BELIEVE in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. Vs 10, When a person BELIEVES in Christ, it results in his justification, his being made righteous, freed of the guilt & sin, made acceptable to God. With the mouth's open confession the result is salvation. Vs 11, Scripture says, “Whoever BELIEVES in Him will not be disappointed. NO MENTION OF H2O!)

2 Thes 2:
13 But we should and are [morally] obligated [as debtors] always to give thanks to God for you, believers beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through the [e]sanctifying work of the Spirit [that sets you apart for God’s purpose] and by your faith in the truth [of God’s word that leads you to spiritual maturity].

14 It was to this end that He called you through our gospel [the good news of Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection], so that you may obtain and share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(MY NOTE: Vs 13, Believers chosen """through the sanctifying work of the Spirit""" & by FAITH. Vs 14 He called you by the good news of ""Jesus’ death, burial & resurrection"". NO WATER NEEDED!)


1 Cor 12:13 13 For by one [Holy] Spirit we were all baptized into one body, [spiritually transformed—united together] whether Jews or Greeks (Gentiles), slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one [Holy] Spirit [since the same Holy Spirit fills each life].
(NOTE MY: Translators capitalized Spirit to identify deity when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Jn 1:33, Acts 1:4-5, 10:45, 11:16) baptizes with His salvation sealing (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 4:4) indwelling Holy Spirit. NO WATER NEEDED!)

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
(MY NOTE: 1 Lord = Jesus, 1 Faith = in His sin atoning work, 1 Baptism = Holy Spirit & NO WATER INVOLVED!)

Col 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, but by the [spiritual] circumcision of Christ in the stripping off of the body of the flesh [the sinful carnal nature],
(MY NOTE: The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a SPIRITUAL circumcision/covenant done without hands & WITHOUT WATER!)

Deut 30:6 (A) And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart,
(MY NOTE: NO WATER USED!)

1 Cor 15:
1 Now brothers and sisters, let me remind you [once again] of the good news [of salvation] which I preached to you, which you welcomed and accepted and on which you stand [by faith].

2 By this faith you are saved [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose], if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain [just superficially and without complete commitment].

3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold],

4 and that He was buried, and that He was [bodily] raised on the third day according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold]
(RECAP: Vs 1, the good news of salvation on which you stand by FAITH. Vs 2, By this FAITH you are saved, reborn from above, spiritually transformed, renewed & set apart for His purpose. Vs 3, I passed on to you as of """first importance"" that Christ died for our sins. Vs 4, He was buried & raised on the 3rd day according to Scriptures. Saved bt FAITH in Christ's death & resurrection. NOT 1 WORD ABOUT WATER!)

 

[FlyingDove]

Details on 2 assemblies/covenants timeline

The 4 gospels are predominantly OT doctrine. Acts is a transitional, from OT/Jewish under Mosaic law assembly to NT/Spirit filled Body of Christ book.

It's Acts 26:15-18 where the risen Lord chooses Paul & sends him to the gentiles. Acts 20:24 Proclaims Paul's mission: testify of > the gospel of the grace of God. Romans 5:1-2 teaches God's grace is accessed by FAITH!

Paul's 13 epistles (Romans to Philemon) are written to believers/NT Body of Christ.

John the Baptist (a Mosaic law adherent Jew & son of a Temple Priest/Zacharias (Lk 1:5-8) was sent to Jews only! And said this: I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I. He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire. (Matt 3:11)

When Peter is speaking at Pentecost (all males 20 yrs & older/a mandatory attendance) he's addressing Jews only! (Acts 2:14, 22, 36)

Jesus is born under, sent to & taught those, under Mosaic law (Gal 4:4).

Jesus was sent to Jews only! Matt 4:23, 10:5-6, 15:24, Rom 15:8.

Post #1 cites OT Jewish repentance rituals. There were required ceremonial water PURIFICATION rituals/ablutions as well: temple utensils, pots, cups mikveh, proselytes at conversion etc, etc. These water/purification practices were a shadow (See Heb 10:1) of the ultimate Spiritual purification to come.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(MY NOTE: All scripture is written for our learning. NOT all scripture was written for our "doctrine". Example NT believers aren't required to bring an animal sacrifice to the Temple Priest)

Jesus/Holy Spirit baptism is the true Living Water (Jn 4:10, 6:35, 7:37-39, Jer 17:13, Ps 36:7-9) He Spiritually immerses every believer in.

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(MY NOTE: By one Spirit/Christ's Holy Spirit are we all baptized into one body, the Body of Christ! Only Christ baptizes with the Living Water/Holy Spirit Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Jn 1:33, Acts 1:4-5, 10:45, 11:16).

Citing verses written to OT Jewish converts isn't the same message. That the risen Christ gave Paul & addressed to the NT/Body of Christ believer.

The dividing point for the 2 assemblies/covenant promises: Christ's Death, Burial & Resurrection!

Rom 10:
4 For Christ is the end of the law [it leads to Him and its purpose is fulfilled in Him], for [granting] righteousness to everyone who believes [in Him as Savior].

5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law [with all its intricate demands] shall live by it.
(MY NOTE: Belief in Christ sin atoning death & resurrection is the end of the keeping Mosaic mandates for righteousness & beginning of the new covenant. God's gospel of grace that's accessed by FATH)

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Jn 3:

if there is soteriological value for gentiles in John 3 then not in Mark 16:15-16 which was chronologically later, especially given the indiscriminate nature of the commission indicating it was not just for Jews but "Whoever" among "every creature".

NOT 1 WORD ABOUT WATER!)

note that


a) there are at least two things that seem to be called "eternal life", attained at different times

The first being a person, whom we can have now

1 John 5
20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

John 11
25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”



and the second being immortality, which happens at the last Trump

1 Corinthians 15
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

Jude 1
20But you, beloved, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21keep yourselves in the love of God as you await the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you eternal life.

Romans 2
5But because of your hard and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.



and
b) that "saved" (sōthēsetai) can mean more than one thing.

such as "healed" in Luke 8:50 or "saved" in a soteriological sense in Romans 10:13






With that said, God said this in Mark 16 and Matthew 28 regarding baptisms

Mark 16
15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Matthew 28
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”





Acts 10 shows that a person can receive the Holy Spirit before being baptized, however Cornelius was still baptized soon after receiving the Holy Spirit, which supports Matthew 28 and Mark 16 if "saved" in Mark 16 is referring to immortality at the redemption.




Acts 10
46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.

Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.




Similar to Paul in Acts 22
15You will be His witness to everyone of what you have seen and heard. 16And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, and wash your sins away, calling on His name.’

And Acts 19 where disciples both were baptized
Acts 19
4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.

and Acts 16
Acts 16
31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32Then Paul and Silas spoke the word of the Lord to him and to everyone in his house. 33At that hour of the night, the jailer took them and washed their wounds. And without delay, he and all his household were baptized.


And the eunuch (an Ethiopian gentile) in Acts 8
36As they traveled along the road and came to some water, the eunuch said, “Look, here is water! What is there to prevent me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” 38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.

etc.





Also, note what Paul says about Peter who had the Holy Spirit, supporting that immortality specifically is not just about receiving the Holy Spirit imo

Galatians 2
11When Cephas came to Antioch, however, I opposed him to his face, because he stood to be condemned. 12For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself, for fear of those in the circumcision group.

If not then what does "condemned" refer to? And what he says about the Galatians whom he affirmed had the Holy Spirit
Galatians 3
3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? 5Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Galatians 4
6And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”

Galatians 5
2Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.


further, what do these mean?

John 15
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. 2He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful.

4Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

if there is soteriological value for gentiles in John 3 then not in Mark 16:15-16 which was chronologically later, especially given the indiscriminate nature of the commission indicating it was not just for Jews but "Whoever" among "every creature".

I apologize

correction: if there is soteriological value for gentiles in John 3 then why not in Mark 16:15-16 which was chronologically later, especially given the indiscriminate nature of the commission indicating it was not just for Jews but "Whoever" among "every creature".




p.s. I don't know if the five minute thing is practical for humans btw

 

[FlyingDove]

if there is soteriological value for gentiles in John 3 then not in Mark 16:15-16 which was chronologically later, especially given the indiscriminate nature of the commission indicating it was not just for Jews but "Whoever" among "every creature".


note that


a) there are at least two things that seem to be called "eternal life", attained at different times

The first being a person, whom we can have now

1 John 5
20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

John 11
25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”



and the second being immortality, which happens at the last Trump

1 Corinthians 15
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

Jude 1
20But you, beloved, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21keep yourselves in the love of God as you await the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you eternal life.

Romans 2
5But because of your hard and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.



and
b) that "saved" (sōthēsetai) can mean more than one thing.

such as "healed" in Luke 8:50 or "saved" in a soteriological sense in Romans 10:13






With that said, God said this in Mark 16 and Matthew 28 regarding baptisms

Mark 16
15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Matthew 28
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”





Acts 10 shows that a person can receive the Holy Spirit before being baptized, however Cornelius was still baptized soon after receiving the Holy Spirit, which supports Matthew 28 and Mark 16 if "saved" in Mark 16 is referring to immortality at the redemption.




Acts 10
46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.

Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.




Similar to Paul in Acts 22
15You will be His witness to everyone of what you have seen and heard. 16And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, and wash your sins away, calling on His name.’

And Acts 19 where disciples both were baptized
Acts 19
4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.

and Acts 16
Acts 16
31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32Then Paul and Silas spoke the word of the Lord to him and to everyone in his house. 33At that hour of the night, the jailer took them and washed their wounds. And without delay, he and all his household were baptized.


And the eunuch (an Ethiopian gentile) in Acts 8
36As they traveled along the road and came to some water, the eunuch said, “Look, here is water! What is there to prevent me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” 38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.

etc.





Also, note what Paul says about Peter who had the Holy Spirit, supporting that immortality specifically is not just about receiving the Holy Spirit imo

The main point in the Jn 3 I shared was:
Vs 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
(MY NOTE: Faith being the key, not any personal self works to include water. Which you continue to inject as a necessary means/work unto salvation. Faith not works has always been the conduit to salvation: Noah, Abraham etc.)

I had made my case for FAITH & FAITH alone. You are free to disagree & promote your heart, as am I.

Clearly no matter what I present won't make any difference to your personal doctrinal beliefs. I'm fine with leaving it at we disagree.

Finally, this was posted as a personal blog. I have no interest in further arguing/debating my personal beliefs with you or your beliefs either. Best wishes JJ