Redeemed from among men.

[10-22-27]

Unless the 144,000 were raptured to Heaven, how could they appear before the throne of God? And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. (Rev 14:3)

Nehemiah you need to work on your timelines. First, those in Matthew were resurrected, the last time they were seen was in Jerusalem, there is nothing said about them being taken to heaven. I believe these men of God have remained on this earth in a resurrected body and have been working the Lord's work. There are many stories of men in white garments coming to the aid of Christians or the past 2000 years.

When the tribulation is finished, they will be called to Mt. Zion here on earth, not in heaven. Mt. Zion is the name of the highest mountain on which the city of Jerusalem was built, it's the place David took possession of and transferred his court from Hebron. It is also called the "Holy hill." That's where Jesus going to gather his 144,000.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Are you saying they were not dead?

No.

It appears you have little knowledge of the burial practices of the ancient Jews concerning their dead, even after 100 or 1000 years. They estimate millions have been put into these burial caves around Jerusalem. A family would use these burial sites from generation to generation. When the body had decomposed, they would put their remains in ossuaries (small coffins) and place them in a small room in the same cave. Why? Because they believed in the resurrection. The ossuary of Caiaphas was found about 10 years ago and he's been dead for 1900 years.

Neat, but also not relevant.

What you are doing in your comments is, denying the power of the resurrection; limiting God's power, calling Paul a liar in his description of those raised to life incorruptible and immortal.

Uh..no.

You wrote, "They could not rise before Christ rose."

I didn't post this. TheDivineWatermark posted this- and it was a quote from a biblehub commentary.

Maybe learn how to read first, before condescending to people?

 

[montana123]

It would be pure speculation since the Bible silent. It is more than likely that they too went to Heaven when Christ took all the OT saints from Hades to the New Jerusalem. All the saints who have passed on are presently in the New Jerusalem. See Hebrews 12.

There is no saints at the New Jerusalem yet.

God said He is going t make a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind.

Which is a place that sin has never been, and sin will never be.

Which Jesus went away to prepare this place.

At the New Jerusalem the saints will remember nothing prior to that and will feel like they have always been there, and nowhere else.

But in Revelation 6 there are souls under the altar and they ask Jesus when He would avenge them, and He said when all the saints are with Him.

Which is where they are now when they go to be with Christ which they remember the earth, so it cannot be the New Jerusalem.

Which the saints will go there after the millennial reign of Christ.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is no saints at the New Jerusalem yet.

Then what is this?
But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem,
[1] and to an innumerable company of angels,
[2] To the general assembly and Church of the firstborn, (NT saints)
which are written in heaven,
[3]and to God the Judge of all,
[4] and to the spirits of just men made perfect, (OT saints)
[5]And to Jesus the Mediator of the New Covenant,
[6] and to the blood of sprinkling, (in the heavenly Sanctuary)
that speaketh better things than that of Abel. (Heb 12:L22-24)

And what is this?
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us... (Heb 12:1)

The "cloud of witnesses" includes all the groups in the New Jerusalem in Heaven right now. The OT saints were taken to Heaven by Christ when He arose from the dead. Since the resurrection of Jesus, all the NT saints go directly to Heaven. Therefore Paul says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (who is in Heaven --as the Mediator of the New Covenant).

 

[10-22-27]

Nehemiah,
Hebrews 12:1 begins with the word "Wherefore," or "we are" is an inference drawn from the examples produced in the preceding chapter, and for this reason, both chapters should be read in connection with each other. From verse 5 to 39, a few of the witnesses mentioned are, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sara etc., these are the cloud or multitude of witnesses that have gone before us. Unless they are numbered with those who were raised "After" Christ was raised they remain in their graves.

 

[selahsays]

Nehemiah,
Hebrews 12:1 begins with the word "Wherefore," or "we are" is an inference drawn from the examples produced in the preceding chapter, and for this reason, both chapters should be read in connection with each other. From verse 5 to 39, a few of the witnesses mentioned are, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sara etc., these are the cloud or multitude of witnesses that have gone before us. Unless they are numbered with those who were raised "After" Christ was raised they remain in their graves.

———
No, @10-22-27. Those mentioned in Hebrews 11 were not in their graves; they were in heaven. Read Ecclesiastes 12:6-7. There’s no such thing as soul sleep. What was the promise?

Let’s stsrt with Hebrews 11:39.

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

- Hebrews 11:39 (KJV)

The men and women mentioned in chapter eleven took place in Old Testament times before Jesus walked upon the earth. They all had a good report in regards to their service and faithfulness to God; yet not one of them received “the promise” because they all lived prior to the time of Acts 1:4-8:

And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

- Acts 1:4-8 (KJV)

There would be a short delay from the time of Jesus Christ's ascension into heaven and the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost day. Jesus told all of His followers to wait in Jerusalem until that day came.
—selah

 

[10-22-27]

Salahsays wrote, "No, @10-22-27. Those mentioned in Hebrews 11 were not in their graves; they were in heaven. Read Ecclesiastes 12:6-7. There’s no such thing as soul sleep. What was the promise?"

Before I comment, let me ask you this one question. Are you saying these O.T. saints, BODY, SOUL, AND SPIRIT are in heaven? Or are you saying, their bodies remain in the ground and their souls and spirits are with the Lord?

 

[selahsays]

Salahsays wrote, "No, @10-22-27. Those mentioned in Hebrews 11 were not in their graves; they were in heaven. Read Ecclesiastes 12:6-7. There’s no such thing as soul sleep. What was the promise?"

Before I comment, let me ask you this one question. Are you saying these O.T. saints, BODY, SOUL, AND SPIRIT are in heaven? Or are you saying, their bodies remain in the ground and their souls and spirits are with the Lord?

Their flesh bodies are in the ground. Their spirit and soul are in heaven.