Really 24/7 worship in the Tabernacle of David?

ResidentAlien · Feb 21, 2023

A lot of Charismatics and NAR/INC groups promote the idea of 24/7 prayer and worship. They say there was 24/7 praise and worship before the Ark of the Covenant during the time of the Tabernacle of David. For example see here: https://billyhumphrey.com/billysblog/247-prayer-in-the-spirit-of-the-tabernacle-of-david. It says: "David set the Ark in a tent and commanded Asaph, the song leader, along with specifically trained singers and musicians, to worship the Lord before the Ark night and day (1 Chron 16:37)."

But 1 Chronicles 16:37-40 says: "So he left there before the ark of the covenant of the LORD Asaph and his brethren, to minister before the ark continually, as every day's work required: And Obededom with their brethren, threescore and eight; Obededom also the son of Jeduthun and Hosah to be porters: And Zadok the priest, and his brethren the priests, before the tabernacle of the LORD in the high place that was at Gibeon, To offer burnt offerings unto the LORD upon the altar of the burnt offering continually morning and evening, and to do according to all that is written in the law of the LORD, which he commanded Israel;" (KJV)

Every translation says "continually" or "regularly," not day and night. And v. 40 says "morning and evening." Humphrey seems to be taking a lot of liberty with the phrase "morning and evening." To me this just means in the morning and in the evening; Humphrey twists it into "day and night" which carries the meaning he wants it to carry.

Why is this significant? Mainly because Charismatics like to push this idea and they say that in the last days God will restore the "correct worship" as it was during the time of the Tabernacle of David. This will be a sign of the Lord's imminent return. The scripture they use as justification is Acts 15:16: "After this I will return and will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up;" James quotes this verse at the council in Jerusalem. The context is whether or not the Gentiles are included or if they first have to convert to Judaism before they can be Christians and has nothing to do with "proper worship."

I'd like to discuss what the Tabernacle of David was all about and whether there was 24/7 praise and worship before the Ark during this time.

ThereRoseaLamb · Feb 21, 2023

ResidentAlien said:

I don't know any Charismatics that would say they worship and pray 24/7. In fact I think the vast majority pray a lot less than that. Otherwise our country would be headed in a different direction. I see a deceiving spirit that has hit many Christians, people I never thought would fall for what they have fallen for.

That being said I have attended and left churches who made a show of the worship service. We had a pastor come in that I didn't vote for. He insisted that everyone stood for the worship service. That hit me the wrong way, so I sat, crossed my arms and waited for him to say something. He would walk to the back of the church to see people who weren't standing. It got worse from there but I left before he robbed the church of thousands and disappeared.

I attended another church where a young pastor came in. Every time the worship service would be longer than the preaching. They would repeat songs again and again. It got to the point where the sermon was less than a half hour but the singing and standing was an hour. I started to wonder what we were paying the preacher for exactly.

I'd have to do a deep dive on your subject, but again, I don't there is anyone keeping up the commitment of 24/7 prayer and worship.

ResidentAlien · Feb 21, 2023

ThereRoseaLamb said:

You may not know them but there's plenty out there. IHOP in Kansas City is one of the better know.

https://www.ihopkc.org/prayerroom/about-the-prayer-room/

Hilltop House of Prayer is another.

https://hilltoptlh.org/ministries/prayerroom/history-of-247-prayer/

I'm not interested in whether or not they exist; I know they do. What I'm interested in is how they justify it. Is it based on truth and sound doctrine? For all of them it's about restoring the fallen Tabernacle of David. According to their teaching, the Tabernacle in David's day was a place of 24/7 praise and worship. But I haven't found anything in scripture to support this. Does anyone know where this is taught in the Old Testament?

ThereRoseaLamb · Feb 21, 2023

ResidentAlien said:

You may not know them but there's plenty out there. IHOP in Kansas City is one of the better know.

https://www.ihopkc.org/prayerroom/about-the-prayer-room/

Hilltop House of Prayer is another.

https://hilltoptlh.org/ministries/prayerroom/history-of-247-prayer/

I'm not interested in whether or not they exist; I know they do. What I'm interested in is how they justify it. Is it based on truth and sound doctrine? For all of them it's about restoring the fallen Tabernacle of David. According to their teaching, the Tabernacle in David's day was a place of 24/7 praise and worship. But I haven't found anything in scripture to support this. Does anyone know where this is taught in the Old Testament?

Sorry, got a kick out of IHOP. This is totally new to me. I like to keep up on things. Have to look into this deeper. I know of nowhere this is taught in the OT.

ResidentAlien · Feb 21, 2023

ThereRoseaLamb said:

LOL Yeah, IHOPKC got sued by IHOP, the pancake place, for trademark infringement but they eventually dropped it.

Pilgrimshope · Feb 21, 2023

ResidentAlien said:

i think it’s a foreshadow of living our daily lives for Jesus and walking in his ways

remembering the tabernacle is the person who receives the Holy Ghost now on the new testement whereas in the ot the spirit came only to the center room of the man made temple

That’s a pattern for Jesus spirit living in our heart

The Father

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

The Son

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭

The Holy Ghost

“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The kingdom of God is within us , our body is the temple and the most holy room is our heart where gods spirit is with us we’re meant to live each day knowing he’s with us 24 7

Lafftur · Feb 21, 2023

ResidentAlien said:

Well HALLELUJAH!!! There are Christians out there desiring to praise and worship God 24/7!! Hallelujah!

If Whataburger can keep cooking and selling hamburgers 24/7 then, I suppose it is perfectly fine for any Christians to praise and worship God 24/7!

I think that’s wonderful!! …and I don’t think God has a problem with it either!

ButterflyJones · Feb 21, 2023

ResidentAlien said:

A lot of Charismatics and NAR/INC groups promote the idea of 24/7 prayer and worship. They say there was 24/7 praise and worship before the Ark of the Covenant during the time of the Tabernacle of David. For example see here: https://billyhumphrey.com/billysblog/247-prayer-in-the-spirit-of-the-tabernacle-of-david. It says: "David set the Ark in a tent and commanded Asaph, the song leader, along with specifically trained singers and musicians, to worship the Lord before the Ark night and day (1 Chron 16:37)."

But 1 Chronicles 16:37-40 says: "So he left there before the ark of the covenant of the LORD Asaph and his brethren, to minister before the ark continually, as every day's work required: And Obededom with their brethren, threescore and eight; Obededom also the son of Jeduthun and Hosah to be porters: And Zadok the priest, and his brethren the priests, before the tabernacle of the LORD in the high place that was at Gibeon, To offer burnt offerings unto the LORD upon the altar of the burnt offering continually morning and evening, and to do according to all that is written in the law of the LORD, which he commanded Israel;" (KJV)

Every translation says "continually" or "regularly," not day and night. And v. 40 says "morning and evening." Humphrey seems to be taking a lot of liberty with the phrase "morning and evening." To me this just means in the morning and in the evening; Humphrey twists it into "day and night" which carries the meaning he wants it to carry.

Why is this significant? Mainly because Charismatics like to push this idea and they say that in the last days God will restore the "correct worship" as it was during the time of the Tabernacle of David. This will be a sign of the Lord's imminent return. The scripture they use as justification is Acts 15:16: "After this I will return and will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up;" James quotes this verse at the council in Jerusalem. The context is whether or not the Gentiles are included or if they first have to convert to Judaism before they can be Christians and has nothing to do with "proper worship."

I'd like to discuss what the Tabernacle of David was all about and whether there was 24/7 praise and worship before the Ark during this time.

I think we may infer the term continually means 24/7.

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Feb 21, 2023

ResidentAlien said:

Lol, before you clarified, I was thinking, "International House of Pancakes has a prayer room in Kansas City?!?? That's awesome!!"

Komentaja · Feb 22, 2023

Its really rich that charismatics dare talk about proper worship. Whats that gonna be? Smoke machines, effeminate pastors jumping on stage (many times even unbiblical women pastors) and some corny wanna be cool hip hop songs or hellsong love songs that could be talking about Joe instead of Jesus.

Worldly concerts is proper worship you heard it here first

To the topic at hand: Its clear from the verses you provided that morning and night meaning that. Furthermore, even if they DID have some sort of a system where they kept someone there 24/7 has 0 bearing on us doing the same today...

ResidentAlien · Feb 22, 2023

If someone wants to worship 24/7 that's their business. My only question is whether it's something taught in the scriptures or if it's from man. A lot of Charismatic teachers say that "true worship" is the key to the restoration of all things, which must take place before the Lord can return. Now, if that's the case, we should probably take them seriously. But is it really the case, or have thousands of people jumped on a bandwagon that has no basis at all in truth?

For those maybe not familiar with the Tabernacle of David, an artist's rendering is shown below. It's markedly different from the Tabernacle of Moses in that instead of three rooms, with the Ark concealed within the Holy of Holies, it is a simple one-room tent with the Ark on full display. There were no animal sacrifices in the Tabernacle of David, only praise and worship. The Tabernacle of David is a picture and shadow of the New Covenant as opposed to the Tabernacle of Moses which represents the Old Covenant.

There are many good studies online that explain the differences between the Tabernacle of Moses and the Tabernacle of David. But for the purpose of this thread my main interest is in whether the praise and worship before the Tabernacle of David really went on 24/7. Also, even if it did, is that the model of teaching we have in the New Testament? We should all praise and worship the Lord 24/7 in our hearts; however, Charismatics routinely dip into the Old Testament to justify false teachings when there's no justification for them under the New Covenant. Is corporate praise and worship as the key to the Lord's return one of those false doctrines?

Edify · Feb 22, 2023

24/7 worship... did they stop to eat? Did they worship in shifts?
BTW, what's the purpose of talking about IHOP when we know they're not right? I wouldn't believe anything they say, nor make a habit of hearing their teachings. It's not spiritually healthy.

ResidentAlien · Feb 22, 2023

Edify said:

Who is "we?" I brought up IHOPKC because someone said they'd never heard of this phenomenon. If it doesn't have any relevance for you then just ignore it.

Edify said:

This thread is about one specific thing they teach; not just them but other groups as well. Do you have a problem with even discussing this topic? Do you have anything to contribute?

Edify · Feb 22, 2023

If someone asked me about something they believed, I would immediately steer them to evidence that they believe many false doctrines.
The point is as a christian we are to expose them for what they are, not to cover any/every jot & tittle of what they do.
Would you do the same if the group was Mormon or JW's? Same issue, same problem.

ResidentAlien · Feb 22, 2023

Edify said:

Do you believe corporate praise and worship is the key to restoring David's fallen tabernacle and the return of Jesus? Do you have an opinion? That's the topic. Unless you have something to contribute to the topic I'll bid you good day.

Edify · Feb 22, 2023

No, I don't believe it.
Thrrough the years, some denominations believe that if the church did the right things, the church would be restored & the world would be fine. I believe that connects with dominionism, which is 100% false.
The curse of sin is upon the world & our flesh. It cannot be done with this world.

Aaron56 · Feb 22, 2023

ThereRoseaLamb said:

How did this strange practice get into the church?

ThereRoseaLamb · Feb 22, 2023

Aaron56 said:

I don't know, but I have been in several that do it that way.

Everlasting-Grace · Feb 22, 2023

Aaron56 said:

Alot of churches do this. when a pastor quits or leaves or is fired. The have people come to basically interview. then the members vote yes or no.. I doubt everyone get 100% yes votes

mrjsm · Feb 18, 2025

@ResidentAlien
I had similar questions myself. In checking into this, and looking at the original Hebrew, here’s what I found:

In 1 Chronicles 16:37-42 (NET translation), it says:
37 David left Asaph and his colleagues there before the ark of the Lord’s covenant to serve before the ark regularly and fulfill each day’s requirements, 38 including Obed-Edom and sixty-eight colleagues. Obed-Edom son of Jeduthun and Hosah were gatekeepers. 39 Zadok the priest and his fellow priests served before the Lord’s tabernacle at the worship center in Gibeon, 40 regularly offering burnt sacrifices to the Lord on the altar for burnt sacrifice, morning and evening, according to what is prescribed in the law of the Lord which he charged Israel to observe. 41 Joining them were Heman, Jeduthun, and the rest of those chosen and designated by name to give thanks to the Lord. (For his loyal love endures!) 42 Heman and Jeduthun were in charge of the music, including the trumpets, cymbals, and the other musical instruments used in praising God. The sons of Jeduthun guarded the entrance.

Asaph was the musician and songwriter who wrote many of the Psalms. Possibly though, since in verse 42 it states that Heman and Jeduthun were in charge of music, including instruments, it could be that Asaph and his crew were doing some kind of spoken worship, or were singing acapela, Gregorian-chant style without instruments, similar to how medieval monks did (and some still do). And so maybe the ‘band’ only played or accompanied the worship in the morning and in the evening. Hard to say, since we are separated by a vast amount of time and culture from how they did things back them.

It’s not as clearly stated in this translation, but in the original Hebrew it was clear this was the assigned daily work of Asaph and his crew.

The word in 1 Chronicles 16:37 that is often translated as ‘regularly’ is actually most often used throughout the Old Testament to mean 'continually.' (The word is תָּמִ֖יד / tā-mîḏ Strong's Hebrew 8548 ), if you look at the way it is translated in the vast majority of uses, it means "continually" or some variation thereof (evermore, perpetually, always, ever, etc.). See https://biblehub.com/hebrew/tamid_8548.htm for the other uses of this word.

So translating this as 'regularly' versus 'continually' is actually a slightly different variation. In the few other cases where they translate that word as meaning 'regularly' the sense seems to be that it means perpetually, such as in 2 Samuel 9:7, where David promises Mephibosheth that he will always be able to eat at his table.

However, if you look at 1 Chronicles 16:40, where it says (in the NET translation):
“39 Zadok the priest and his fellow priests served before the Lord’s tabernacle at the worship center in Gibeon, 40 regularly offering burnt sacrifices to the Lord on the altar for burnt sacrifice, morning and evening, according to what is prescribed in the law of the Lord which he charged Israel to observe.

…interestingly, the same word is used here as in verse 37, and is also translated here as “regularly.” Here in verse 40, it is clearly *not* saying that the priests were ‘continually’ offering sacrifices, since the author of the passage clearly states in the same sentence that the sacrifices were done “morning and evening.” So that word *can* mean something other than 'continually.'

But wait: It’s not so cut and dry. The author was certainly aware of the fact that this word had the connotation that it did of ‘continually’, and they did not further clarify in verse 37 that it happened only morning and evening, like they did in verse 40.

As you know, authors in the Bible were not at all averse to repetition – they could be exhaustingly repetitive, especially in the earlier portions of the Old Testament. So it seems to me that the fact that they did not specify ‘morning and evening’ in verse 37 could be taken to indicate that the normal sense of this word applies.

Going back to verse 38, you can see that there were 68 people assigned to this task – easily large enough of a pool of worshipers for each person to only have to serve 1 hour about every 3 days, thus making 24/7 worship a seemingly simple thing to arrange. It seems to me you could even double that to have 2 people worshipping at any given time.

In the end, it remains a little ambiguous, and this is probably why the translators hedge their bets a little bit and translate that word as ‘regularly’.

I think we can see why some see ‘24/7’ here, since it could easily mean that, and also why some see ‘regularly, i.e. daily - morning and evening’ here, since it could also easily mean that as well.

The basic idea here is that worship was taken very seriously, and was not something that was done casually, nor was it done as an ‘every once in a while’ sort of thing.

In our modern context, I think there are some things to consider or think about in relation to this. If you find yourself resistant to worshipping, I think it’s important to the heart of the matter:
- Are there problems with the way worship is being done at your church? If so, maybe you need to go somewhere else, or bring up the issue in a scriptural way, following New Testament protocols for that.
o Is it done too casually, or too disrespectfully (jokingly, blandly, without feeling, etc.)
o Are the songs even worship at all, or just feel-good spiritual or religious ‘rah-rah’ stuff? Is there any actual worship happening?
o Is it being done in a way that is too rigid or narrow, such as restricting to songs of bygone eras, certain niche styles (rock, rap, hymns, etc.) that alienate and make it hard for others to worship.
o Is it being done in a way that injures and alienates and impedes worship for some people (i.e loud volumes)
o It is being done in a way that only allows for only one way of worship, and hinders other heart and body postures of worship and surrender such as kneeling, bowing, dancing, laying prostrate on the floor, etc.?
- Do you have issues with giving God praise, or with God getting the praise that he is due?
- Is there something keeping you from worshipping him wholeheartedly like David did?

Those are all some things to think about.

Really 24/7 worship in the Tabernacle of David?

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