Psalms 22:16 - 2 different translations - which is correct?
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Suspicion is the very thing we should have. Sound teaching is the object and sound teaching begins with sound translation.
The whole problem seems to center on how the Hebrew kāarî should be translated. I'm not a Hebrew scholar so I don't have an opinion on the better translation, but see here for some information on the issues: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/22-16.htm.
The whole problem seems to center on how the Hebrew kāarî should be translated. I'm not a Hebrew scholar so I don't have an opinion on the better translation, but see here for some information on the issues: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/22-16.htm.
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“For dogs have compassed me: The assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: They pierced my hands and my feet.”
Psalm 22:16 KJV
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.”
Luke 24:44
Given that Jesus was crucified it seems like understanding it’s about Jesus crucifixion leans towards one being legitimate because of the constant theme in the law prophets and psalms about his crucifixion
“And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.”
Zechariah 13:6 KJV
“And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”
Zechariah 12:10 KJV
“For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.”
Zechariah 3:9 KJV
“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”
Isaiah 53:5 KJV
What is written in the ot was about messiah fulfilled is the idea
“Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. ….
After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. but one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
….And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.”
John 19:23, 28, 34, 37 KJV
What im saying is there are always consistent themes like Jesus being crucified so my opinion , nothing of authority , is it seems to interpret it’s own self one version agrees with the rest of what the Bible says about Jesus and was fulfilled when they crucified him another was fulfilled when they pierced his Side and another when they cast lord for his garments when they walked by railing upon him and laughing at him ect
the whole gospel is also written on the ot to convince us it’s true
Psalm 22:16 KJV
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.”
Luke 24:44
Given that Jesus was crucified it seems like understanding it’s about Jesus crucifixion leans towards one being legitimate because of the constant theme in the law prophets and psalms about his crucifixion
“And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.”
Zechariah 13:6 KJV
“And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”
Zechariah 12:10 KJV
“For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.”
Zechariah 3:9 KJV
“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”
Isaiah 53:5 KJV
What is written in the ot was about messiah fulfilled is the idea
“Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. ….
After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. but one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
….And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.”
John 19:23, 28, 34, 37 KJV
What im saying is there are always consistent themes like Jesus being crucified so my opinion , nothing of authority , is it seems to interpret it’s own self one version agrees with the rest of what the Bible says about Jesus and was fulfilled when they crucified him another was fulfilled when they pierced his Side and another when they cast lord for his garments when they walked by railing upon him and laughing at him ect
the whole gospel is also written on the ot to convince us it’s true
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The Leningrad Codex has long be regarded as representative of the traditional Hebrew Masoretic Text. And here is what is written therein:
כִּ֥י סְבָב֗וּנִי כְּלָ֫בִ֥ים עֲדַ֣ת מְ֭רֵעִים הִקִּיפ֑וּנִי כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י יָדַ֥י וְרַגְלָֽי׃ (reading from right to left)
Literal interlinear translation: For dogs have surrounded me. The congregation of the wicked has enclosed me. They pierced my hands and my feet.
King James Bible: For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
כִּ֥י סְבָב֗וּנִי כְּלָ֫בִ֥ים עֲדַ֣ת מְ֭רֵעִים הִקִּיפ֑וּנִי כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י יָדַ֥י וְרַגְלָֽי׃ (reading from right to left)
Literal interlinear translation: For dogs have surrounded me. The congregation of the wicked has enclosed me. They pierced my hands and my feet.
King James Bible: For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
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I should have been clearer in my Q.
Psalms 22:16 regardless of the version its very similar - For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
However, the Masoretic Hebrew Texts that has been pointed out to me by a Jew is;
Psalm 22:17 (Hebrew text) כִּ֥י סְבָב֗וּנִי כְּלָ֫בִ֥ים עֲדַ֣ת מְ֭רֵעִים הִקִּיפ֑וּנִי כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י יָדַ֥י וְרַגְלָֽי׃
Here we can see Masoretic Text clearly has כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י kā-’ă-rî, the word 'kaari' which seems to be the issue.
P22:17 17 For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.
example:
Isaiah 38: 13 - I have considered until morning— Like a lion (the word kaari), So He breaks all my bones; From day until night You make an end of me.
Psalms 22:21 reads
Save me from the mouth of the lion! You have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen!
I have also seen some videos on you tube - I’m trying to work out what is the correct translation and why?
Psalms 22:16 regardless of the version its very similar - For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
However, the Masoretic Hebrew Texts that has been pointed out to me by a Jew is;
Psalm 22:17 (Hebrew text) כִּ֥י סְבָב֗וּנִי כְּלָ֫בִ֥ים עֲדַ֣ת מְ֭רֵעִים הִקִּיפ֑וּנִי כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י יָדַ֥י וְרַגְלָֽי׃
Here we can see Masoretic Text clearly has כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י kā-’ă-rî, the word 'kaari' which seems to be the issue.
P22:17 17 For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.
example:
Isaiah 38: 13 - I have considered until morning— Like a lion (the word kaari), So He breaks all my bones; From day until night You make an end of me.
Psalms 22:21 reads
Save me from the mouth of the lion! You have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen!
I have also seen some videos on you tube - I’m trying to work out what is the correct translation and why?
This is exactly from the Leningrad Codex (the Masoretic Text).
Westminster Leningrad Codex (from Bible Hub)
כִּ֥י סְבָב֗וּנִי כְּלָ֫בִ֥ים עֲדַ֣ת מְ֭רֵעִים הִקִּיפ֑וּנִי כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י יָדַ֥י וְרַגְלָֽי׃
And here is the meaning:
כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י (kā-’ă-rî) = they pierced. There is nothing about a lion in that word! See below:
Brown-Driver-Briggs
[כאר] see II. כור.
II. [כוּר] verb meaning dubious, perhaps bore, or dig, or hew (DlProl. 121 compare Assyrian kâru, fell trees (DlHWB 324)) — only
Qal Perfect3plural כארו = כָּארוּ for כָּרוּ Psalm 22:17 (ᵑ0 כָּאֲרִי, see אֲרִי) they have bored (digged, hewn) my hands and my feet (si vera lectio; compare Vrss De Pe Che Bae and others; some, however, deriving from כרה in this sense); hence perhaps following.
So someone -- A JEW -- is trying to misrepresent the Hebrew as well as change the meaning of this verse. That should simply be dismissed as nonsense, since it really makes no sense.
Westminster Leningrad Codex (from Bible Hub)
כִּ֥י סְבָב֗וּנִי כְּלָ֫בִ֥ים עֲדַ֣ת מְ֭רֵעִים הִקִּיפ֑וּנִי כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י יָדַ֥י וְרַגְלָֽי׃
And here is the meaning:
כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י (kā-’ă-rî) = they pierced. There is nothing about a lion in that word! See below:
Brown-Driver-Briggs
[כאר] see II. כור.
II. [כוּר] verb meaning dubious, perhaps bore, or dig, or hew (DlProl. 121 compare Assyrian kâru, fell trees (DlHWB 324)) — only
Qal Perfect3plural כארו = כָּארוּ for כָּרוּ Psalm 22:17 (ᵑ0 כָּאֲרִי, see אֲרִי) they have bored (digged, hewn) my hands and my feet (si vera lectio; compare Vrss De Pe Che Bae and others; some, however, deriving from כרה in this sense); hence perhaps following.
So someone -- A JEW -- is trying to misrepresent the Hebrew as well as change the meaning of this verse. That should simply be dismissed as nonsense, since it really makes no sense.
Yes I appreciate that - but the Hebrew appears to have a different translation - even the below has 'lion'
Brown-Driver-Briggs' - strong #738 & biblehub Strong's Concordance have 'ari' as 'lion'
Numbers 24:9
‘He bows down, he lies down as a lion; And as a lion, who shall rouse him?’ “Blessed is he who blesses you, And cursed is he who curses you.”
738 [e]כַּאֲרִ֛י
ka-’ă-rî
as a lion
Soooo, confusing.
Psalms 22:16 "For dogs have compassed me: The assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: They pierced my hands and my feet."
Jesus is saying that these "dogs" are His enemies; they have surrounded Him. These enemies of Christ pierced His hands and His feet as they nailed Him to the cross.
Psalm 22 is a prophetic chapter; it is the psalm of the crucifixion.
selah
Jesus is saying that these "dogs" are His enemies; they have surrounded Him. These enemies of Christ pierced His hands and His feet as they nailed Him to the cross.
Psalm 22 is a prophetic chapter; it is the psalm of the crucifixion.
selah
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