Prosperity

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A critique of Osteen's Prosperity Gospel:

I submitted my own response as follows:
Simple answer has taken me years to learn: Jesus in his earthly ministry preached the Law, which required all 316 or so requirements and included, in Deuteronomy, the promise to prosper the Israeli nation. This promise of prosperity, however, required obedience to the Law of Moses, and was a general promise of prosperity for the *nation* and not for *individuals.*

God gifts individuals and calls them individually. Some He will prosper materially, and some He will not. We all have to submit to God's will. But we all have to obey in order to enjoy God's favor with respect to our eternal inheritance.

This is true for nations today in the New Testament era. Our nation will be blessed if we obey, as a people, the Gospel of Christ. Some individuals will be wonderfully prospered. Others will be called to less "material" prosperity, but will prosper in other ways.

But we must all submit to the Cross. And we saw how a nation will end up when a nation is in spiritual decline and disobeys God.

Abraham was rich, Solomon was rich, and others.

It was a physical covenant with physical blessings.

But they could not neglect the poor but had to help them like people that owned a field for growing food they had to allow a portion of field so the poor could glean from it.

But in the New Testament it is a spiritual covenant offered to the world so we are only blessed with our needs and not riches.

Which the Bible says any person that preaches godliness is gain, prosperity Gospel, from such withdraw yourself.

Having food and clothing be content.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

Any person that goes by their wants violates this.

Love is greater than faith and faith works by love.

No love then no faith.

If a person goes by their wants that is not love for they care about their wants above people's needs.

Jesus told the rich man to sell all he had and give to the poor and then he could inherit eternal life.

The Bible says the rich are to distribute their money.

The early Church sold all they had that was not a necessity and gave to the people that had need.

Neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common which they shared everything.

I went to my neighbor's house who claimed to be a Christian and said I am going to take my car and will return it in an hour.

And he said no can do.

And I said I guess you do not know what the Bible says now do you.

Yeah that is not going to work too good among people who claim Christianity.

But Joel Osteen is wrong in believing the prosperity Gospel for it neglects the poor and needy.

Which the preacher is not to be in the ministry for the money.

This also will not work too good among those who claim Christianity.

The last I knew Joel was worth 40 million dollars and now they say 100 million dollars.

Regardless if the video is fake or not Joel is greedy and loves money.
 
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Abraham was rich, Solomon was rich, and others.

It was a physical covenant with physical blessings.

But they could not neglect the poor but had to help them like people that owned a field for growing food they had to allow a portion of field so the poor could glean from it.

But in the New Testament it is a spiritual covenant offered to the world so we are only blessed with our needs and not riches.

Which the Bible says any person that preaches godliness is gain, prosperity Gospel, from such withdraw yourself.

Having food and clothing be content.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

Any person that goes by their wants violates this.

Love is greater than faith and faith works by love.

No love then no faith.

If a person goes by their wants that is not love for they care about their wants above people's needs.

Jesus told the rich man to sell all he had and give to the poor and then he could inherit eternal life.

The Bible says the rich are to distribute their money.

The early Church sold all they had that was not a necessity and gave to the people that had need.

Neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common which they shared everything.

I went to my neighbor's house who claimed to be a Christian and said I am going to take my car and will return it in an hour.

And he said no can do.

And I said I guess you do not know what the Bible says now do you.

Yeah that is not going to work too good among people who claim Christianity.

But Joel Osteen is wrong in believing the prosperity Gospel for it neglects the poor and needy.

Which the preacher is not to be in the ministry for the money.

This also will not work too good among those who claim Christianity.

The last I knew Joel was worth 40 million dollars and now they say 100 million dollars.

Regardless if the video is fake or not Joel is greedy and loves money.

Yes, a person who is in the ministry and makes money through the ministry looks very bad if he has 40 million dollars! The same thiing with a politician who makes his or her money off of government taxation and winds up super-wealthy.

It's true that a minister can write books and invest on the side, and that's okay. But if a person is sold out in the ministry where is there time for all of the investment and book writing? At the very least, it looks like too much ambition for wealth.

That being said, God promised wealth and prosperity of various kinds for the nation that serves Him. This means the nation will have wealthy individuals and other individuals who are good at a variety of things that contribute to the prosperity of the nation.

I don't, therefore, find it wrong to have a Christian nation with some very wealthy inviduals who have contributed to the growth and prosperity of our country, who've built good businesses and provided lots of things a country needs to trade and be wealthy. Without these wealthy individuals, things don't get built and purchased, and we sink into poverty.

There are many ways to prosper, as opposed to just making money. But everything requires money, with the exception of our Salvation. Jesus paid for that.

Let me advise you not to be reckless with your money and things. People are not very reliable with your stuff! What you've earned hold onto--God isn't just going to readily fix your foolish "faith" spending. He owns a cattle on a thousand hills, but He doesn't support foolish "faith" behavior. Be wise with what you have--nothing wrong with careful investing for the future and for your kids.

The idea is to get free of debt and to owe nobody anything, if you can do it. At least, it's a good, biblical goal.
 
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Here is what I posted on this thread:

I opined that it is interesting to contemplate what the world would be like if from the beginning everyone had cooperated with the will of God for His will to be done on earth. This world would be almost heavenly, with minimal disease and poverty due to natural disasters and no wars or crime caused by humanity. To the extent that people and governments cooperate with GW, they will be blessed both materially and spiritually.

I also noted that verses like these constitute Paul's prosperity gospel: Rom. 9:23, 11:33, Eph. 2:7, 3:8, Col. 1:27, 2:2.

Do you want to discuss any of this?

I'm willing to discuss virtually anything in God's word (the Scriptures). It appears to me that you've grabbed hold of the word "riches" and have recognized that it applies to our current experience of Christ, as well as something we will get to experience in the future Kingdom?

The "riches of understanding" is an interesting one to me? I don't often think of knowledge as "wealth," although obviously Paul saw it as such. I suppose those of us on these forums do value understanding such that when we get it right we view ourselves as "blessed?" ;)

I agree that there is a blessing built in to God's word such that when w hear it and do it there must be a blessing to it. It can mean material prosperity, and it can also mean spiritual prosperity. In the nation Israel they were promised both, the dwelling of God with them--a spiritual blessing, and the material prosperity that comes when growing a nation.

The same thing would apply to nations today who would adopt the Gospel as their Constitution. In doing so, that nation will be blessed, materially and spritually.

However, what individuals should pursue material prosperity has to be between the Holy Spirit and the individual. The Spirit gives gifts as He sees fit, and we need to submit to Him. There are many ways to be prosperous in the world besides just material wealth. But we should not discount the matter of material prosperity, to whatever degree God may allow it.
 
"Osteen's Prosperity Gospel" -- It definitely worked for him.

Hi.. I don't understand why believers don't share what they say. Well they have said for so many years now "there is no such thing as prosperity gospel in the word". Yet believes will say "prosperity Gospel" it seems just to make fun of them. Believers won't share all the good they do for Christ.. or how some made money before they ever started preaching.. took over blah blah blah.
 
Hi.. I don't understand why believers don't share what they say. Well they have said for so many years now "there is no such thing as prosperity gospel in the word". Yet believes will say "prosperity Gospel" it seems just to make fun of them. Believers won't share all the good they do for Christ.. or how some made money before they ever started preaching.. took over blah blah blah.

Your English was a little poor there so I'm not sure what you were saying? I think you were trying to defend the "Prosperity Gospel?"

There is "prosperity" in the word/the Scriptures. As I said, God promised a nation, ie Israel prosperity overall, as opposed to just individuals, if they, as a people, served the one God and followed His Law with a whole heart. If such a nation was to prosper, it obviously would have to include wealthy individuals, such as were called to that.

There are many ways to "prosper" besides material riches, including a large, healthy family, productivity in manners of serving the Lord, a wonderful, popular personality, a valued character, etc. We can prosper in the military, we can prosper in a company, and we can prosper in whatever employment we find ourselves.

But the bottom line is, what gifts has God endowed us with? And what has He called for us to do? Sometimes God calls for us to suffer for Him, and that is of great value in the future Kingdom of God. There is no formula of prosperity that holds for all unless it is simply God's good pleasure with our obedience and, as I said, what He has promised nations, overall, who serve Him.

I don't wish to spend my time criticizing ministers who have devoted their lives to the ministry. They give up a lot to do this, even if they have a lot of money, inherited or even earned. There is a lot of spiritual warfare in any real ministry, and so we are supposed to give double honor to ministers of the Gospel.

But ministers are certainly not above criticism. If they are corrupting the Gospel, even in their ignorance, they need to be corrected. And the formulas given for guaranteeing prosperity have hurt a lot of people and need correction.
 
A critique of Osteen's Prosperity Gospel:

I submitted my own response as follows:
Simple answer has taken me years to learn: Jesus in his earthly ministry preached the Law, which required all 316 or so requirements and included, in Deuteronomy, the promise to prosper the Israeli nation. This promise of prosperity, however, required obedience to the Law of Moses, and was a general promise of prosperity for the *nation* and not for *individuals.*

God gifts individuals and calls them individually. Some He will prosper materially, and some He will not. We all have to submit to God's will. But we all have to obey in order to enjoy God's favor with respect to our eternal inheritance.

This is true for nations today in the New Testament era. Our nation will be blessed if we obey, as a people, the Gospel of Christ. Some individuals will be wonderfully prospered. Others will be called to less "material" prosperity, but will prosper in other ways.

But we must all submit to the Cross. And we saw how a nation will end up when a nation is in spiritual decline and disobeys God.
I think it absurd an actor playing a role in the LDS production, The Chosen, is thought to be able to speak on biblical issues as if he's Jesus.

The Prosperity Doctrine is Satanic.
 
I think it absurd an actor playing a role in the LDS production, The Chosen, is thought to be able to speak on biblical issues as if he's Jesus.

The Prosperity Doctrine is Satanic.

This is an "LDS production?" How did you determine this? Thank you.
 
I think it absurd an actor playing a role in the LDS production, The Chosen, is thought to be able to speak on biblical issues as if he's Jesus.

The Prosperity Doctrine is Satanic.

I think it is misleading to call "The Chosen" an "LDS production."

Here is an article entitled "
‘The Chosen’ creator Dallas Jenkins clarifies his ‘Mormons are Christians’ comments.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/dallas-jenkins-clarifies-his-mormons-are-christians-comments.html

Throughout the years, Jenkins has mentioned that he has friends who belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS church), among them being the brothers who launched Angel Studios, the streaming platform behind “The Chosen." However, Jenkins, the son of Jerry B. Jenkins, the writer behind the bestselling Left Behind franchise, has repeatedly said the studio owners' beliefs have nothing to do with the content in the series...

In an earlier interview with Ruslan KD, Jenkins assured viewers that “The Chosen” did not receive any funding from Angel Studios or any religious organization. He maintained that while Angel Studios employs people who are Mormon, the company is only a "distribution partner," and "they don't actually fund it," he said.
 
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I think it is misleading to call "The Chosen" an "LDS production."

Here is an article entitled "
‘The Chosen’ creator Dallas Jenkins clarifies his ‘Mormons are Christians’ comments.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/dallas-jenkins-clarifies-his-mormons-are-christians-comments.html

Throughout the years, Jenkins has mentioned that he has friends who belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS church), among them being the brothers who launched Angel Studios, the streaming platform behind “The Chosen." However, Jenkins, the son of Jerry B. Jenkins, the writer behind the bestselling Left Behind franchise, has repeatedly said the studio owners' beliefs have nothing to do with the content in the series...

In an earlier interview with Ruslan KD, Jenkins assured viewers that “The Chosen” did not receive any funding from Angel Studios or any religious organization. He maintained that while Angel Studios employs people who are Mormon, the company is only a "distribution partner," and "they don't actually fund it," he said.
Pay attention to the repeated, nuanced, terminology here .

https://fbchurch.org/resource/chosen-produced-by-mormons
 
Pay attention to the repeated, nuanced, terminology here .

https://fbchurch.org/resource/chosen-produced-by-mormons

What "repeated, nuanced, terminology" do you refer to? I think the article did a good job explaining that "The Chosen" is not really an "LDS production." As for Dallas Jenkin's view that "the Mormons have the same Jesus as I do," I certainly question that, though I'm not sure "The Chosen" carries that message at all?
 
What "repeated, nuanced, terminology" do you refer to? I think the article did a good job explaining that "The Chosen" is not really an "LDS production." As for Dallas Jenkin's view that "the Mormons have the same Jesus as I do," I certainly question that, though I'm not sure "The Chosen" carries that message at all?
Read the article again.
Have you watched The Chosen?

Joseph Smith,the 'prophet" in Mormonism, and his brother were in jail. Charged with ,well let's say, indecent acts with little girls.

The town broke into the jail,imagine how that happens, and killed them both.

The article nuances the fact the LDS has everything to do with the production of The Chosen.
You'll notice when the article is suppose to address those "rumors", it is never stated outright the LDS has no part in the series production?
 
"Many critics argue that "The Chosen" includes extra-biblical material and takes creative liberties that can misrepresent the teachings of the Bible. Concerns include the portrayal of Jesus and other biblical figures in ways that are not found in Scripture, which some believe could lead to misunderstandings of Christian doctrine."
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=why the chosen is not biblical&ko=-1&ia=web


https://truthscript.com/reviews/concerns-with-the-chosen/


https://theaquilareport.com/why-christians-shouldnt-watch-the-chosen/
 
Read the article again.
Have you watched The Chosen?

Joseph Smith,the 'prophet" in Mormonism, and his brother were in jail. Charged with ,well let's say, indecent acts with little girls.

The town broke into the jail,imagine how that happens, and killed them both.

The article nuances the fact the LDS has everything to do with the production of The Chosen.
You'll notice when the article is suppose to address those "rumors", it is never stated outright the LDS has no part in the series production?

I think you're looking at it with a critical eye, seeing things that just aren't there. I see nothing about the history of J. Smith. I see nothing about the LDS producing "The Chosen," with the exception of one of many who made contributions without affecting the story.

I think the article did well in pointing out that the rumors about LDS involvement in the story were false. And yes, I've seen "The Chosen." It's very good, in my experience--very spiritual, very touching. I would recommend it to all.

If you can't watch it without this presumption of Mormon involvement in its production, I wouldn't recommend it to you. But I'm well aware of the differences between the LDS and conventional Christians. I have a lot of history in it, from a best buddy in the military, to my next door neighbor, to spending many hours listening to Walter Martin speak of them on his radio show.

If you want an exhaustive treatment of this, read "The Kingdom of the Cults," a classic work on the primary American cults, including Mormonism.
 
I think you're looking at it with a critical eye, seeing things that just aren't there. I see nothing about the history of J. Smith. I see nothing about the LDS producing "The Chosen," with the exception of one of many who made contributions without affecting the story.

I think the article did well in pointing out that the rumors about LDS involvement in the story were false. And yes, I've seen "The Chosen." It's very good, in my experience--very spiritual, very touching. I would recommend it to all.

If you can't watch it without this presumption of Mormon involvement in its production, I wouldn't recommend it to you. But I'm well aware of the differences between the LDS and conventional Christians. I have a lot of history in it, from a best buddy in the military, to my next door neighbor, to spending many hours listening to Walter Martin speak of them on his radio show.

If you want an exhaustive treatment of this, read "The Kingdom of the Cults," a classic work on the primary American cults, including Mormonism.
A lot of history in the LDS.

Now your post makes sense.

The Chosen needs a critical eye. It takes great liberties with the Bible.

It is not very good and is not something Christians should consider entertaining.
 
A lot of history in the LDS.

Now your post makes sense.

The Chosen needs a critical eye. It takes great liberties with the Bible.

It is not very good and is not something Christians should consider entertaining.

Yea, you read the article backwards, and are now congratulating yourself. It's a free world.
 
Wow,you're hostile!
And you project,again .

I'm not hostile at all. I am, however, perplexed. You keep referring to an article you posted that comes to the opposite conclusion you say it does.

I'll say it again. "The Chosen" is *not* an LDS production. A Mormon outfit may have helped with the production in a peripheral way, but had nothing to do with producing the contents of the story. And it is normal for a professional studio to hire various contractors to help with the technical aspects of producing a show.

A solid Christian supervised it in such a way that it remained true to the Christian message and true to the historical account. Some liberties had to be taken since there is so much we cannot know in the details. Nothing in the story-line advocated for Mormonism in any way.

Overall, it was a good experience for me watching many of the episodes. I have no idea why you're so hostile to it? You say it is an LDS production when the very link you provided to prove it said the exact opposite, that it is not an LDS production.

I know Satan doesn't like the message and story of Christ to get out, particularly when it is produced by Catholics and Evangelicals. Paul said he was grateful that the mesesage just got out, even when done by insincere people. You should too.
 
I'm not hostile at all. I am, however, perplexed. You keep referring to an article you posted that comes to the opposite conclusion you say it does.

I'll say it again. "The Chosen" is *not* an LDS production. A Mormon outfit may have helped with the production in a peripheral way, but had nothing to do with producing the contents of the story. And it is normal for a professional studio to hire various contractors to help with the technical aspects of producing a show.

A solid Christian supervised it in such a way that it remained true to the Christian message and true to the historical account. Some liberties had to be taken since there is so much we cannot know in the details. Nothing in the story-line advocated for Mormonism in any way.

Overall, it was a good experience for me watching many of the episodes. I have no idea why you're so hostile to it? You say it is an LDS production when the very link you provided to prove it said the exact opposite, that it is not an LDS production.

I know Satan doesn't like the message and story of Christ to get out, particularly when it is produced by Catholics and Evangelicals. Paul said he was grateful that the mesesage just got out, even when done by insincere people. You should too.
I won't post the definition of Nuance,Nuanced.
If someone wants to do that so to help you realize the interview was full of subterfuge using that word to hide facts,go for it.

Meanwhile.

Latter-day Saint Life
Latter-day Saint producers of ‘The Chosen’ talk creative liberties, gratitude for involvement in show
January 06, 2022 10:39 PM MST
http://www.ldsliving.com/latter-day...ies-gratitude-for-involvement-in-show/s/10332
 
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