problem related to praying in tongues

[Inquisitor]

That's two different people telling their remembrance of the events of that day.
I imagine that's exactly what was written by each of them.. That does not make the NT imperfect.
One of them said she saw a young man sitting in the tomb..
The other one said there were two angels there....
Mary apparently got there just before sunrise.... she then ran back to town to tell the others.... when "they" all came, the sun had risen, apparently.

All four are imperfect accounts.

 

[TheLearner]

I am not keeping up. Please, give me a brief summary of what has been said.
Thanks, Daniel

 

[wattie]

Mark 16:2
And very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

John 20:1
Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already removed from the tomb.

So when did Mary arrive at the tomb?

Perfect scripture?

This issue has been answered by scholars for a long long time.

It's about where the sun is in the sky.. it can still be dark at dawn. I think scholars have looked at how the day and night is described by the people of the day and seen that it's not defined the way we think in our day.

Need to get the quote from the Case for Christ ... I think it may also be in Evidence that Demands a Verdict.

 

[hornetguy]

All four are imperfect accounts.

Define "imperfect".... do you mean they don't agree with each other, word for word? Correct. Four different accounts of the same events. This does not make the New Testament imperfect.

You never commented on the fact that Mary got there first, still dark, then ran back to town to get the others, and the sun had risen by the time they all got back to the tomb....

 

[Magenta]

Why is John's third letter even in the New Testament? There is nothing in that letter.

Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does
what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God.

 

[Inquisitor]

This issue has been answered by scholars for a long long time.

It's about where the sun is in the sky.. it can still be dark at dawn. I think scholars have looked at how the day and night is described by the people of the day and seen that it's not defined the way we think in our day.

Need to get the quote from the Case for Christ ... I think it may also be in Evidence that Demands a Verdict.

Impossible to reconcile.

 

[Inquisitor]

Define "imperfect".... do you mean they don't agree with each other, word for word? Correct. Four different accounts of the same events. This does not make the New Testament imperfect.

You never commented on the fact that Mary got there first, still dark, then ran back to town to get the others, and the sun had risen by the time they all got back to the tomb....

Read the following verse carefully.

Mark 16:1-2
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might come and anoint Him. And very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

 

[hornetguy]

Mark 16:1-2
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might come and anoint Him. And very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

The Greek actually says they came to the tomb at the rising of the sun. In other words, it was still dark, and the sun was just coming up.

 

[Magenta]

I am not keeping up. Please, give me a brief summary of what has been said.
Thanks, Daniel

Recap: "I'm right." "No, I'm right." "You're wrong! Scripture is imperfect." Eh? Really??? .

 

[wattie]

The Greek actually says they came to the tomb at the rising of the sun. In other words, it was still dark, and the sun was just coming up.

Yeah.. much simpler put than I could!

Thank you.

 

[wattie]

Recap: "I'm right." "No, I'm right." "You're wrong! Scripture is imperfect." Eh? Really??? .

Yeah, this thread is making about as much sense as the joke:

"What's the difference between a duck?"

Answer: "One leg is both the same"

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I'm not a Calvinist fella!

I'm neither Calvinist nor Arminian.

But aside from that... John baptised in water..

That is the baptism Jesus talks about and is the same kind He commands the disciples to do.

What baptism do you call this?

If it is a kind of salvation baptism...then it isn't something the disciples do.

So what do you mean by baptism?

Doesn't matter, the Baptisms mentioned in both Mark Chapter 16 and Matthew 28 were ADDED in Later.
We have the proofs.
Even the Church Fathers mention it.
This is not a new concept just one many refuse to accept because Water Baptism completes their Religious Ritual.
Their RITUAL is more important than God's True Word!
You, give Proof to how important Your RITUAL is according to your views.

Whenever Jesus said, Your SINS are forgiven, Go and Sin NO MORE, we don't Read/ or See that Jesus Commands them to be Water Baptism. Their Sins are Forgiven and Jesus sends them on their way SAVED....NO Water Baptism!

 

[hornetguy]

It's bad policy, and it shows your true intent to base your belief on what someone doesn't say, instead of what they do say.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

It's bad policy, and it shows your true intent to base your belief on what someone doesn't say, instead of what they do say.

Which is why we can see in the Book of Acts how they went from Just the Holy Spirit filling people and Speaking in Tongues, but 3 Chapters later they are now Water Baptizing. And each time people are Saved from then on they are Water Baptized. The Disciples were never Water Baptized until we read from Paul's Account they were later AFTER Jesus Ascended.

So Water Baptism caught on with the Infilling of the Holy Spirit AFTER AFTER AFTER Jesus Ascended and was at the Right Hand.

I am water Baptise'd and not opposed one bit to it. I've Water Baptized many many people. I am just pointing out how it came to be people were Water Baptized AFTER being Filled by the Holy Spirit. NO ONE was being filled by the Holy Spirit while Jesus was here, He had to LEAVE for it to happen. So it was a New Tradition. Now we know! Issued by the Holy spirit, not by Jesus!

 

[hornetguy]

Which is why we can see in the Book of Acts how they went from Just the Holy Spirit filling people and Speaking in Tongues, but 3 Chapters later they are now Water Baptizing. And each time people are Saved from then on they are Water Baptized. The Disciples were never Water Baptized until we read from Paul's Account they were later AFTER Jesus Ascended.

So Water Baptism caught on with the Infilling of the Holy Spirit AFTER AFTER AFTER Jesus Ascended and was at the Right Hand.

I am water Baptise'd and not opposed one bit to it. I've Water Baptized many many people. I am just pointing out how it came to be people were Water Baptized AFTER being Filled by the Holy Spirit. NO ONE was being filled by the Holy Spirit while Jesus was here, He had to LEAVE for it to happen. So it was a New Tradition. Now we know! Issued by the Holy spirit, not by Jesus!

There is some truth to that, but you are also forgetting the day of Pentecost... "what must we do??" "repent, and be baptized, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"..... Peter didn't tell them "repent, ask Jesus into your life, receive the Spirit, and then sometime later, whenever it's convenient, get baptized"
You are also forgetting the Ethiopian eunuch.... as soon as he believed, they found water and he was baptized.
As soon as Paul was physically able, he arose and was baptized.
I firmly believe that we receive the Holy Spirit, indwelling, when we believe in Jesus, repent, and are baptized...

Just like Peter said...

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

There is some truth to that, but you are also forgetting the day of Pentecost... "what must we do??" "repent, and be baptized, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"..... Peter didn't tell them "repent, ask Jesus into your life, receive the Spirit, and then sometime later, whenever it's convenient, get baptized"
You are also forgetting the Ethiopian eunuch.... as soon as he believed, they found water and he was baptized.
As soon as Paul was physically able, he arose and was baptized.
I firmly believe that we receive the Holy Spirit, indwelling, when we believe in Jesus, repent, and are baptized...

Just like Peter said...

I am not forgetting any of it.
There was already followers of Christ who were not Spirit Filled and did not get Baptized nor Commanded.
It's not until People were getting FILLED with the Spirit they began Baptizing.
That's not Jesus' Teaching.
The Holy Spirit led Peter to say that!

As soon as People were Filled, Spoke in Tongues, they were Water Baptized.

Before, when Jesus was here, People were Saved by Accepting Who Jesus said He was but no Holy Spirit Filled, no Speaking in Tongues, no Water Baptism.

 

[hornetguy]

I am not forgetting any of it.
There was already followers of Christ who were not Spirit Filled and did not get Baptized nor Commanded.
It's not until People were getting FILLED with the Spirit they began Baptizing.
That's not Jesus' Teaching.
The Holy Spirit led Peter to say that!

As soon as People were Filled, Spoke in Tongues, they were Water Baptized.

Before, when Jesus was here, People were Saved by Accepting Who Jesus said He was but no Holy Spirit Filled, no Speaking in Tongues, no Water Baptism.

Actually, when Jesus was teaching, his disciples WERE baptizing people.
I do agree that there was no indwelling by the Spirit until Pentecost....

 

[Inquisitor]

Recap: "I'm right." "No, I'm right." "You're wrong! Scripture is imperfect." Eh? Really??? .

The revelation of the Christ was perfect, obviously.

The New Testament was written by men, they had to remember the events, and what Jesus said.

We know the Christ was crucified and rose on the third day, fact.

It's the fine details surround His death and resurrection, which illustrates that the sources differ in their recollection.

One angel, two angels, no angels.
Jesus at the tomb, Jesus not at the tomb.
Mary sees Jesus at the tomb, Mary does not see Jesus at the tomb.
Jesus will be in Gallilee, Jesus appears in the upper room.
Jesus rose on the third day, Jesus rose after the third day and night.
Rock in front of tomb, rock actually rolled away.

How anyone could call three of the gospels synoptic, more than likely, has never read the text. Of that I am certain.

 

[Inquisitor]

Define "imperfect".... do you mean they don't agree with each other, word for word? Correct. Four different accounts of the same events. This does not make the New Testament imperfect.

You never commented on the fact that Mary got there first, still dark, then ran back to town to get the others, and the sun had risen by the time they all got back to the tomb....

Mark 16:2
And very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

 

[wattie]

The revelation of the Christ was perfect, obviously.

The New Testament was written by men, they had to remember the events, and what Jesus said.

We know the Christ was crucified and rose on the third day, fact.

It's the fine details surround His death and resurrection, which illustrates that the sources differ in their recollection.

One angel, two angels, no angels.
Jesus at the tomb, Jesus not at the tomb.
Mary sees Jesus at the tomb, Mary does not see Jesus at the tomb.
Jesus will be in Gallilee, Jesus appears in the upper room.
Jesus rose on the third day, Jesus rose after the third day and night.
Rock in front of tomb, rock actually rolled away.

How anyone could call three of the gospels synoptic, more than likely, has never read the text. Of that I am certain.

Okay... Look at the scholars who have resolved this over the past 500 years +

This is not something that has not been addressed and solved.

In fact this is an argument from skeptics and critics.. not Christians. At least not serious Christians.

But anyway..I'm leaving thus thread. Good luck