Preterism, Futurism, Historicism 3 Schools of Interpretation

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GaryA

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Revelation is not chronological
Research it yourself...
The book is written in a chiastic structure.
Nonetheless, 'the beloved city' in Revelation 20:9 is referring to Jerusalem at/near the end of the Millennium and not the New Jerusalem - which does not come down out of heaven until at/after the time of the post-Millennium Final Judgment.
 

GaryA

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Rome/RCC does not rule over the kings of the earth.

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. Revelation 17:18
You might be quite surprised to discover the real truth about that... ;)

What is your answer to @Melach's question? And, what [great] city reigneth over the kings of the earth?
 
Nov 1, 2024
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You might be quite surprised to discover the real truth about that... ;)

What is your answer to @Melach's question? And, what [great] city reigneth over the kings of the earth?
It's not visible at the moment. When NYC and London are nuked it will appear. That's my take at the moment
 
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PRAETERIST
The Praeterist maintains that the prophecies in Revelation have already been fulfilled-- that they refer chiefly to the triumph of Christianity over Judaism and paganism, signalized in the downfall of Jerusalem and of Rome.

FUTURIST
The Futurist interpreters refer all the books of Revelation, except the first three chapters, to events which are yet to come.

HISTORICISM
The Historical interpretation believes the Revelation a progressive history of the church from the first century to the end of time.
Concerning Preterism, I cannot subscribe explicitly to its tenets in full, but partial Preterism has to be correct in my reading of Scripture and history. My exegesis of prophetic texts, such as Matthew 24, Daniel, and Revelation, proceeds primarily through the framework of redemptive-historical fulfillment. While certain prophecies, for example the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, found historical realization, these events constitute a segment of a broader eschatological providence culminating in the future, physical return of Christ, the resurrection of the dead, and the final judgment.

My eschatological perspective aligns most closely with Postmillennialism. Amillennialism exerts a significant influence upon my thought, particularly in my rejection of the novel interpretations characteristic of Dispensationalism. My chief criticism of MacArthur resides in his advocacy of speculative futurism. Dispensational futurism tends to disengage Christians culture and leads to bad ideas in politics. I affirm a victorious Church that witnesses the advancement of Christ's kingdom throughout history.
 

GaryA

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It's not visible at the moment. When NYC and London are nuked it will appear. That's my take at the moment
Oh, but are we not [possibly] talking about the 2nd Beast now?

Before, you seemed to be talking like it was a matter of long history and not [just] a short-term end-times "reign" - so, which is it?

Who (or, what city) has reigned or will reign over [the whole earth]?
 

PaulThomson

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If everyone has not been judged at this point His coming would not be just or fair.
You need to explain why your premise "If everyone has not been judged at this point" logically leads to your conclusion "His coming would not be just or fair."
 
Please define that view for readers. Thank you.
Simply put, The events of Mt. 24 happened by AD.70. The gospel is now spreading worldwide to all the nations.
Mt.28:18-20. This goes on until this;1 Cor.15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

When the last person to be saved,is saved, Jesus returns
 

TMS

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You need to explain why your premise "If everyone has not been judged at this point" logically leads to your conclusion "His coming would not be just or fair."
When Jesus comes in all His glory to raise the righteous from their graves ..... Jesus must know, must have judged, who is going to be raised and saved. If Jesus has not Judged the world then how can He seperate the righteous and unrighteous.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
 

GaryA

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When Jesus returns, He will already know who is saved - based on their faith in Him - no "Judging the world" is required or needed to be had before the resurrection can be carried out.

When you start talking about "Judging the world" - you are then referring to a/the GWTJ 'event' that is largely concerned with 'rewards', etc. - which comes later - and, is not in any way required before the 1000-reign of Christ can/may commence...
 

Adstar

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I think it means the lord will return to earth after the millennium (which makes no sense) and most prophecies have been fulfilled, but not all have, like a good portion of Revelation and a few OT prophecies about the day of the lord's wrath and some that stretch into the millennium (which makes sense).
Yes Jesus will return and His return will be the start of the 1000 years.. thats what the Bible declares in The Book of Revelation chapters 19 and 20..
 

rrcn

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Yes Jesus will return and His return will be the start of the 1000 years.. thats what the Bible declares in The Book of Revelation chapters 19 and 20..
The wicked will be dead during the 1000 years and when they are resurrected to face the final judgement they will face the second death. The scripture quoted below is self explanatory:

[Jer 4:19-31 KJV] 19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.
20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, [and] my curtains in a moment. 21 How long shall I see the standard, [and] hear the sound of the trumpet?
22 For my people [is] foolish, they have not known me; they [are] sottish children, and they have none understanding: they [are] wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, [there was] no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken [it], I have purposed [it], and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city [shall be] forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
30 And [when] thou [art] spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; [thy] lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.
31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, [and] the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, [that] bewaileth herself, [that] spreadeth her hands, [saying], Woe [is] me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.
 
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The wicked will be dead during the 1000 years and when they are resurrected to face the final judgement they will face the second death. The scripture quoted below is self explanatory:

[Jer 4:19-31 KJV] 19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.
20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, [and] my curtains in a moment. 21 How long shall I see the standard, [and] hear the sound of the trumpet?
22 For my people [is] foolish, they have not known me; they [are] sottish children, and they have none understanding: they [are] wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, [there was] no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken [it], I have purposed [it], and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city [shall be] forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
30 And [when] thou [art] spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; [thy] lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.
31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, [and] the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, [that] bewaileth herself, [that] spreadeth her hands, [saying], Woe [is] me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.
Jeremiah was prophesying about the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem and Judah. Don't read into it more than is there
 

rrcn

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Jeremiah was prophesying about the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem and Judah. Don't read into it more than is there
Nor read less into it:
Jerusalem has always represented the kingdom of God, Babylon the satanic counterfeit beginning at the tower of babel and ending in Revelation:

[Rev 18:1-24 KJV] 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong [is] the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What [city is] like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
20 Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast [it] into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft [he be], shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


This text does not say Jerusalem and Judah, it says the Earth. Jerusalem represents God's people through all ages. Where else will this prophecy fit except after the second coming of Jesus?

[Jer 4:23-27 KJV] 23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, [there was] no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
 

GaryA

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Does it say it will nbe with Jesus on earth? does it say that in Rev.20?
Somewhere between "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years" and the fact that nearly every pertinent verse in Revelation 20 indicates that it is referring to something happening on the earth - I am thinking it is pretty conclusive...
 
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Nor read less into it:
Jerusalem has always represented the kingdom of God, Babylon the satanic counterfeit beginning at the tower of babel and ending in Revelation:
Yes, but Jeremiah was prophesying about the destruction of Jerusalem in his day, which he got to see, and Revelation is a prophecy for the end of days. They are not the same Babylon, even though the latter one did originate in the Babylon of Jeremiah's time
 

GaryA

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Postmillennial partial preterist is the biblical model
I have to disagree.

Simply put, The events of Mt. 24 happened by AD.70. The gospel is now spreading worldwide to all the nations.
Mt.28:18-20. This goes on until this;1 Cor.15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

When the last person to be saved,is saved, Jesus returns
Do you see that the verses you quoted - along with verse 23 - indicate that His 'reign' must occur after His 'coming'?

Will He defeat death before He returns? No, of course not. His return will cause more death than ever before by virtue of the 'Wrath of God'.

If Jesus already came back circa 70 A.D. to start His reign, how-and-why is it that He would come back once again for the very same reason?

You need to see that - in the context of Corinthians 15 - the verses you quoted are not a [chronological] "play-by-play" description of immediate-post-Second-Coming activity - as if all that is indicated in those verses have already occurred at His coming. It is actually a synopsis (of sorts) of His reign - indicated, by virtue of verse 23, to align with His coming as being after His coming.