Predestination or free will?

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eternally-gratefull said:
God desires us to have faith

Not blind faith.
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More of a illuminating faith, the faith of Christ.Our new faith. The gift of God not after and not after the imaginations of one own heart (no faith)

Yes his faith as it is written with it representing the faith of God. The power of God that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure.The kind of imputed righteousness given to Abraham

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.2 Corinthians 4;7

The little word it in as it is written carry's much weight. It is the key that the gates of hell could never prevail against.
 
theanointedsinner said:
book of life
therefore, predestination is true
ta da

free will exist
we can choose either to reject or place our faith in the gospel

God transcend time, so the book of life can be before, during, or after salvation, doesn't matter

predestination is true + free will exist = both

discussion over ...
... um, what is this about other topics like "sin" and all that?
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Free will to a believer is to do the will of God .Mankind lost that in the garden when mankind chose to do the will of the father of lies and mankind became slaves to sin.
Its the kind of spiritual food the disciples knew not of .Doing the will of another.( God's)

But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.John 6:32-34
 
theanointedsinner said:
book of life
therefore, predestination is true
ta da

free will exist
we can choose either to reject or place our faith in the gospel

God transcend time, so the book of life can be before, during, or after salvation, doesn't matter

predestination is true + free will exist = both

discussion over ...
... um, what is this about other topics like "sin" and all that?
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t...,

Predestination and free will is not compatible in contiguous application. Therefore, not biblical.
 
reneweddaybyday said:
And yet the elect sin even though you claim they are "slaves of Christ" and God is okay with their sin because they are elect? :sick:
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Yes, the sins of God's elect have all been paid for. Past, present and all future sins are atoned for. The reprobate are sealed eternal torment in hell, I know you don't believe in God's Word which clearly teaches us that this is the case. You reject God's word because God doesn't conform to your wicked expectations
 
Danny1988 said:
Yes, the sins of God's elect have all been paid for. Past, present and all future sins are atoned for. The reprobate are sealed eternal torment in hell, I know you don't believe in God's Word which clearly teaches us that this is the case. You reject God's word because God doesn't conform to your wicked expectations
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D....,

You infer here that all of our sins are automatically forgiven without action on our part. If that is a correct inference...it is wrong.

Christ's death on the cross makes forgiveness available to all humans.
 
preston39 said:
D....,

You infer here that all of our sins are automatically forgiven without action on our part. If that is a correct inference...it is wrong.

Christ's death on the cross makes forgiveness available to all humans.
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Faith without works is dead, so no argument there but faith is a gift that God gives us so it's impossible to believe without the gift of faith.
The only action we perform to receive forgiveness of all our sins is to simply believe in Jesus Christ, nothing more and nothing less.

Christ's work on the cross was enough to pay for the sins of the whole world, but only Gods elect will respond by believing the Gospel.

The reprobate cannot believe, because they don't have the Holy Spirit so it's impossible for carnal people to believe spiritual things. You can present the Gospel to them every day but they will never believe unless God opens their spiritual eyes
 
Danny1988 said:
Yes, the sins of God's elect have all been paid for. Past, present and all future sins are atoned for. The reprobate are sealed eternal torment in hell, I know you don't believe in God's Word which clearly teaches us that this is the case. You reject God's word because God doesn't conform to your wicked expectations
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Danny1988,

Please do not insult fellow believers who do not agree with your calvinistic doctrine by inferring that they do not believe God's Word or that they reject God's Word because they have wicked expectations. That behavior is juvenile and it points to your inability to support your beliefs with Scriptural accuracy.

Also, please follow the conversation. You already replied to the post you quoted above and I responded to your reply.

Here is the discussion:



Danny1988, Post #220:
The elect are slaves of Christ, we don't have a free will. The reprobate are free to sin to their hearts content.


reneweddaybyday, Post #226:
And yet the elect sin even though you claim they are "slaves of Christ" and God is okay with their sin because they are elect? :sick:


Danny1988, Post #231:
You missed the point, we don't sin as the reprobate do. They sin because that's all they can do, they don't have any power against it, where as we sin because we fall into sin unwittingly by accident. We are not given over to a life of sin, without fighting against the temptation.

We are at war with our flesh, which is still corrupt util we receive our glorified bodies.

So there's a huge difference between the elect and the reprobate, one is at war with sin and the other is in love with sin.


reneweddaybyday, Post #232:
Yes, you sin just as the reprobate sin. In fact, someone could conclude that your sin is greater than the reprobate if, in fact, "that's all they can do, they don't have any power against it, where as we sin because we fall into sin unwittingly by accident. We are not given over to a life of sin, without fighting against the temptation".

1 Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it

First God limits trials/temptations so you are not tempted above your ability to endure it.

And God provides an escape.

For you to infer that you are "at war with sin" and yet you still sin (even though God provides a way to escape and God limits the trials so you are not tempted above your ability to endure) is pure fallacy on your part. You sin because you ignore the escape so you may enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season.
 
theanointedsinner said:
I'm still wondering how if God knows how I will apply my free will, how is it still free? does free will have to be so free, it's free-r than what God's omniscience can possibly know? if not, I don't understand free wil
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t....,

G-d knows...or can know...anything. He may choose NOT to know something. That He can do also. Study the book of Job for G-d's application of either venue....it could have been both.

Free will ....is G-d granting us the freedom of doing as we please...sinful or righteous. He granted Adam and Eve free will and they applied free will....but, not righteousness...they sinned. He told them what NOT to do and they chose to do...free will... and thus sin.
 
preston39 said:
t....,

G-d knows...or can know...anything. He may choose NOT to know something. That He can do also. Study the book of Job for G-d's application of either venue....it could have been both.

Free will ....is G-d granting us the freedom of doing as we please...sinful or righteous. He granted Adam and Eve free will and they applied free will....but, not righteousness...they sinned. He told them what NOT to do and they chose to do...free will... and thus sin.
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Do you have any verse or other reason for believing that God chose not to know something?

Also, do you realize that God's choice not to know something does not imply at all that the event is less certain?

If I had an ability to know exactly where a ball I am going to throw will land and I will choose not to know it, it will still land on the exactly same place. There is no randomness of events in the lack of knowledge.
 
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calibob said:
I've received an appropriate number of responses about my gay bashing post but it was mostly about gays, the second paragraph questioned predestination. I was not being sarcastic when I admitted I don't understand it. Predestination, free will or both, I want to know. The only text I have I have trusted over biblical matters is the bible, (usually NIV) and it isn't clear to me. Can it be both? Please respond. CaliBob
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Most all people do not like my interpretation of "Predestination" or "free will", but this is the way that I believe it. Most of God's children believe that God, by his foreknowledge, looked down through time and saw the ones that would choose him, and predetermined them to be the ones that he would save eternally. I have found, in my studies that there are scriptures that don't uphold that theory. Psalms 53:2-3, God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back; they are altogether become filthy, there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Because he knew this to be the state of man, Eph 1, he choose an elect people, before the foundation of the world and predetermined them to be adopted by Jesus and he paid the price for that adoption on the cross. As far as "free will" goes, God has given man freedom to choose how he will live his life here on earth, whether to serve him, or to serve themselves. God did not give man freedom to choose eternal life, because he, by his foreknowledge, that none would seek him or do good ( Psalms 53:2-3 ). Eternal deliverance is not of man's works, lest any should boast. All scriptures must harmonize.
 
calibob said:
That was the most logical reply I've gotten so far, thanks Cali Bob
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I might add, Studying from the NIV will not bring a true understanding of Christ's doctrine, because it has changed some of the language of the King James scriptures and even left out some of the scriptures in order to make man's actions to be a factor in his eternal salvation.
 
Danny1988 said:
we believ God has revealed what He wants us to know about Him in His Word the Holy Bible. But there are things we can't comprehend in our current fallen state so we just trust and obey Him in all that He does and we believe he will reveal everything to us at His appointed time.
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I think that you are spot on with your statements Danny. Beware of people tell you that they understand everything about God and his thinking. His ways are much higher than our ways, Isaiah 55:9, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 
ForestGreenCook said:
Sorry, I did not catch the date of your post, just tuned in.
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OOps. I posted a few difficult questions in the beginning to test the water before I would decide if I wanted to vet very involved here or donate part of my social security to a site if it were to one sided, mostly baptist, penticostal or catholic. Yes their are some closed minded weirdos here but most make sense and many can have oposing opinions weth getting their panties in a bunch. Some keep poping up, I wish thet would just go away but it would be rude to just ignore them. Thank you for sharing.
 
preston39 said:
D....,

You infer here that all of our sins are automatically forgiven without action on our part. If that is a correct inference...it is wrong.

Christ's death on the cross makes forgiveness available to all humans.
Click to expand...
Man has no action in obtaining eternal salvation because that would be eternal salvation by works, and the scriptures deny that ( Eph 2:9 ). calibob is exactly right. Psalms 103:12, As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. As far as our eternal salvation, God looks at us as kings and priests, Jesus loved us ( those that God gave him, John 6 ) and washed us from our sins in his own blood. Jesus went to the cross as a sacrifice for God's acceptance, not man's acceptance. He was a sacrifice for our sins and God accepted the sacrifice.
 
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