Predestination is misunderstood...

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tylerbones1313 said:
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

It doesn't necessarily refer to predestination, the idea that God predetermines who will be saved. Here's why:

Context of the Parable: This verse comes from the Parable of the Wedding Feast, where a king throws a banquet and invites many guests. Some refuse, while others come unprepared. The "chosen" refers to those who attend appropriately dressed, symbolizing those who accept God's invitation and live according to his teachings.
Focus on Response: The parable emphasizes the importance of human response to God's invitation. It's not about a predetermined fate, but about actively accepting God's grace.
Universality of God's Love: The Bible emphasizes God's love for all people (John 3:16). This verse in Matthew doesn't contradict that message. It simply highlights the importance of accepting God's offer.
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You are right that the focus of the parable is not predestination. But neither is it about universal love. The parable is actually portending the change in covenants soon to come. The nation Israel is represented by those invited who refuse. The Gentiles are represented by those who were in the highways and byways. The garments represent the righteousness of Christ necessary to be accepted.
 
So far in this thread I have seen loads of scriptures being denied where God chooses people or wills people.

Or where God saves you before salvation is given

Because why 🤔

Because predestination has become about proving calvinism wrong.

It's no Good this,

What's been rejected is God's will to choose, and what's being favoured is man's own will to choose.

It really is so bad.
 
Cameron143 said:
You are right that the focus of the parable is not predestination. But neither is it about universal love. The parable is actually portending the change in covenants soon to come. The nation Israel is represented by those invited who refuse. The Gentiles are represented by those who were in the highways and byways. The garments represent the righteousness of Christ necessary to be accepted.
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The interpretation of Matthew 22:14 and its context—the Parable of the Wedding Banquet—does indeed touch upon themes of invitation, rejection, and the inclusion of a broader audience into the kingdom of God. This parable, as presented by Jesus, can be understood within the framework of God's dealings with Israel and the extension of His kingdom to the Gentiles, aligning with the statement provided. However, to frame it solely as not about God's universal love may overlook the broader biblical narrative of God's redemptive plan for all humanity.

In the parable (Matthew 22:1-14), a king invites guests to his son's wedding feast, but those invited (representing Israel) refuse to come. Some even mistreat and kill the messengers (prophets sent to Israel). In response, the king invites others (symbolizing the Gentiles) from the highways to fill the wedding hall. The parable concludes with the statement, "For many are called, but few are chosen," highlighting the idea that while the invitation to the kingdom of God extends widely, the response and acceptance of that invitation determine inclusion in the feast—symbolic of the kingdom of God.

This parable reflects historical realities: Israel's leaders often rejected God's prophets and ultimately His Son, Jesus Christ. The inclusion of "those in the highways and byways" does illustrate the expansion of God's invitation to the Gentiles, a theme that unfolds in the New Testament, especially in the book of Acts and Paul's letters. God's covenant with Israel, according to the New Testament, is fulfilled in Christ, who inaugurates the New Covenant through His death and resurrection, opening the way for all people, Jew and Gentile alike, to come to God.

However, this does not negate the theme of God's universal love. The opening of the kingdom to the Gentiles is a demonstration of God's love extending beyond the boundaries of Israel to embrace all nations. John 3:16, Ephesians 2:11-22, and Galatians 3:28, among other passages, underscore the inclusive nature of God's love and the universal scope of the gospel. The invitation to the wedding feast is an act of grace, offered to all, reflecting God's desire for a relationship with humanity.

In summary, while the statement about the parable portending the change in covenants and representing the shift from Israel to including the Gentiles is supported by biblical scholarship, it is also essential to recognize that this narrative is part of the larger biblical message of God's redemptive love for the whole world. The parable underscores both God's judgment on unbelief and His gracious invitation to salvation—a salvation that is made available to all through faith in Christ.
 
tylerbones1313 said:
The interpretation of Matthew 22:14 and its context—the Parable of the Wedding Banquet—does indeed touch upon themes of invitation, rejection, and the inclusion of a broader audience into the kingdom of God. This parable, as presented by Jesus, can be understood within the framework of God's dealings with Israel and the extension of His kingdom to the Gentiles, aligning with the statement provided. However, to frame it solely as not about God's universal love may overlook the broader biblical narrative of God's redemptive plan for all humanity.

In the parable (Matthew 22:1-14), a king invites guests to his son's wedding feast, but those invited (representing Israel) refuse to come. Some even mistreat and kill the messengers (prophets sent to Israel). In response, the king invites others (symbolizing the Gentiles) from the highways to fill the wedding hall. The parable concludes with the statement, "For many are called, but few are chosen," highlighting the idea that while the invitation to the kingdom of God extends widely, the response and acceptance of that invitation determine inclusion in the feast—symbolic of the kingdom of God.

This parable reflects historical realities: Israel's leaders often rejected God's prophets and ultimately His Son, Jesus Christ. The inclusion of "those in the highways and byways" does illustrate the expansion of God's invitation to the Gentiles, a theme that unfolds in the New Testament, especially in the book of Acts and Paul's letters. God's covenant with Israel, according to the New Testament, is fulfilled in Christ, who inaugurates the New Covenant through His death and resurrection, opening the way for all people, Jew and Gentile alike, to come to God.

However, this does not negate the theme of God's universal love. The opening of the kingdom to the Gentiles is a demonstration of God's love extending beyond the boundaries of Israel to embrace all nations. John 3:16, Ephesians 2:11-22, and Galatians 3:28, among other passages, underscore the inclusive nature of God's love and the universal scope of the gospel. The invitation to the wedding feast is an act of grace, offered to all, reflecting God's desire for a relationship with humanity.

In summary, while the statement about the parable portending the change in covenants and representing the shift from Israel to including the Gentiles is supported by biblical scholarship, it is also essential to recognize that this narrative is part of the larger biblical message of God's redemptive love for the whole world. The parable underscores both God's judgment on unbelief and His gracious invitation to salvation—a salvation that is made available to all through faith in Christ.
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Your last 2 posts in my opinion are why there is so much division in the church universal today. The subject of the parable is the kingdom of God. There are manifold parables on the subject. None is designed to teach the totality of the subject. Rather each is designed to inform on a particular aspect. And while the Bible remains consistent throughout, to infer or deduce doctrine not being particularly and specifically taught is often to go beyond the intent of the passage.
I don't believe this is your intent, nor most others. But it does often reveal biases that exist in all of us. Every passage doesn't speak to every issue, nor is it meant to.
 
Cameron143 said:
Your last 2 posts in my opinion are why there is so much division in the church universal today. The subject of the parable is the kingdom of God. There are manifold parables on the subject. None is designed to teach the totality of the subject. Rather each is designed to inform on a particular aspect. And while the Bible remains consistent throughout, to infer or deduce doctrine not being particularly and specifically taught is often to go beyond the intent of the passage.
I don't believe this is your intent, nor most others. But it does often reveal biases that exist in all of us. Every passage doesn't speak to every issue, nor is it meant to.
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Cameron143 said:
Your last 2 posts in my opinion are why there is so much division in the church universal today. The subject of the parable is the kingdom of God.
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It is not my intent to cause division in anyway. If we differ what is the difference so I can study and understand. I know this parable is about the Kingdom of God, that is what it says above. If we exchange everywhere it says wedding feast and inserted kingdom of God it wouldn't change the parable at all or the truth it portrays.
 
tylerbones1313 said:
It is not my intent to cause division in anyway. If we differ what is the difference so I can study and understand. I know this parable is about the Kingdom of God, that is what it says above. If we exchange everywhere it says wedding feast and inserted kingdom of God it wouldn't change the parable at all or the truth it portrays.
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I don't disagree with that conclusion. My only point is that it isn't directly speaking to the love of God, and this has to be inserted into the passage. When one does that, they are inserting their belief upon the passage. There are plenty of passages to teach the love of God from that are definitive.
Your posts are well informed and largely reflect the meaning of the passages you cite. I shared as I did for your edification. If I failed in this endeavor, my sincerest apologies.
 
Cameron143 said:
I don't disagree with that conclusion. My only point is that it isn't directly speaking to the love of God, and this has to be inserted into the passage. When one does that, they are inserting their belief upon the passage. There are plenty of passages to teach the love of God from that are definitive.
Your posts are well informed and largely reflect the meaning of the passages you cite. I shared as I did for your edification. If I failed in this endeavor, my sincerest apologies.
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Thank you
 
This is one of my favorite parables because it is so true to life -- where we all live in the real world presently. This parable is about the Gospel of the Kingdom. For any of us who preach the gospel, as opportunity arises, we know that we receive for our troubles more rejection of our message than not. Everyone has an excuse -- just like the people portrayed in the parable, don't the? Skeptics have one excuse, atheists another, agnostics another, adherents to other religions a host of other excuses, etc., etc. The list of excuses for rejecting the message of life seems legion -- nearly infinite in length.

But what I personally love about Luke's version that teaches the effectual call of the elect is that this parable should be so encouraging for all us to share the gospel freely because all the pressure is off us! Some of us are planters of the seed at any given time, then at another time we water for growth. But whatever our role is in any particular situation, it's always God who gives the increase! His Word will go forth and accomplish its purpose; it will never return to him void.

Because of this parable and a dear saint many years ago encouraging me to evangelize, I will share tomorrow a habit I have cultivated over the years in terms of evangelism. It's one way of "redeeming the time" by capitalizing on ubiquitous opportunities, which make them easy to miss even though they are under our noses every day.
 
Cameron143 said:
I don't disagree with that conclusion. My only point is that it isn't directly speaking to the love of God, and this has to be inserted into the passage. When one does that, they are inserting their belief upon the passage. There are plenty of passages to teach the love of God from that are definitive.
Your posts are well informed and largely reflect the meaning of the passages you cite. I shared as I did for your edification. If I failed in this endeavor, my sincerest apologies.
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Thank you. I was just saying His call of Salvation (Which we know is His Love) according to Scripture shifted from old covenant (them that were bidden to the wedding (i.e. Kingdom of God)) (blindness in part is happened to Israel), at the Crucifiction of Christ (Nation of Israel rejecting Him), to the New covenant (until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in (Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in )), which started at the outpouring of the Holy Ghost. That at least I thought shows universal love.

with humbleness of heart and the love of God. Thanks for listening.
 
Cameron143 said:
Too swell.
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"Too swell, or, not too swell, that is the question!"....
actors-from-play-the-taming-of-the-shrew-is-a-comedy-by-william-shakespeare-CYXX89.jpg
 
tylerbones1313 said:
Thank you. I was just saying His call of Salvation (Which we know is His Love) according to Scripture shifted from old covenant (them that were bidden to the wedding (i.e. Kingdom of God)) (blindness in part is happened to Israel), at the Crucifiction of Christ (Nation of Israel rejecting Him), to the New covenant (until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in (Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in )), which started at the outpouring of the Holy Ghost. That at least I thought shows universal love.

with humbleness of heart and the love of God. Thanks for listening.
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I actually think you have alot of good things to say, possess good communication skills, and a healthy understanding of scripture, and a passion for others to be blessed as you are. And you don't seem to get entrenched in personal attacks but engage with ideas. There are plenty of people I wouldn't have shared this way with.
Grace and peace.
 
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