There's nothing about Christ going down to paradise in that passage.
Predestination is misunderstood...
- Thread starter Genez
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Are you under the delusion that God will give the gift of the Holy Spirit to the unrepentant and unbelieving (the so-called "dead")? This is the Calvinistic nonsense that has made a mockery of the Gospel.
Am I suppose to believe a witch raised the dead.
I can show you scripture where demons deceived people and made people believe they where someone else and they actually fell for it.
Then you can use that with comparison with this, if your willing to be my friend that is.
Being your friend (or not) has nothing to do with accepting as valid and relevant the Scripture you post. Yes, demons deceived people elsewhere in Scripture. This passage has NOTHING WHATSOEVER in it to suggest any demonic involvement.
The Scripture says that the witch did her thing and Samuel was raised. It doesn't say a demon impersonating Samuel was raised.
I don't believe the natural man will ever seek after God apart from the intervention of God. And the reason for this is what you have stated. But I do believe God allows man to choose freely of the things he is capable of choosing.Pardon my tardy reply, please, as I had a nap and am now eating dinner ..
Free will: is the natural man free to choose God, or is his will constrained by his nature,
which is in opposition to God, being His enemy and hostile in his mind toward Him?
I bought a vehicle the other day. I easily qualified for the loan. But that probably wasn't true of every vehicle on the lot. A combination of my income and credit history would not qualify me for certain vehicles. So while I had the freedom to purchase a vehicle, I wasn't free to purchase any vehicle.
If one were to go to the salvation store, they would be free to purchase a Bible, get a couple of books, maybe light a candle, or do any of a number of things. But no one would ever qualify for salvation. And no one could pay salvation's price.
Now the guy who owns the car lot could have given me the most expensive vehicle. He chose not to. That was his choice to make. And so it is in the salvation store operates similarly.
Personally, I've always done better at the salvation store.
[not sure if this is your point, but...]
How can one have "life" before they have "the Son"?
"He that hath the son hath life"
It sounds like you are saying "life... BEFORE life". [??]
"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." - I John 5:12
[ Jhn 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."]
Jesus said to the thief on the cross tonight you will join me in paradise.
Think about this.
Why should the thief go straight to heaven when the saints where waiting to be resurrected.
He must have been talking about the place where the saints where, the ones who came out of the tomb stone.
Why should the spirit of Jesus not already be in paradise, before he died on the cross
God is everywhere.
When you understand this, it unlocks the whole bible, my super duper friend.
And it shows you you can be saved by faith before being saved by salvation.
Exactly. Dead people cannot choose anything. However, Nehemiah thinks anyone who says so is making making too big a deal about the state of the natural man and is thinking like a natural man, which means he rejects what Scripture says on the matter.
Jesus’ words in John 6:65
But this wasn't my point.
I'm asking... before one has "the Son" (that's all of us before we're saved), how does one "have LIFE" as you seem to be suggesting (when you say, "made ALIVE first" as in, prior to)?
["He that hath the Son hath life" - per 1 John 5:12a (not prior to that)]
how would he know the difference if he's spiritually dead, how does a spiritually dead person know he's dead, according to scripture he's capable of believing He's God.
Ephesians 2:4-7
Since you are quoting Ephesians 2:4-7, here (distinct from what vv.1-3's point had been), perhaps I can direct you to my Post #1110 to read carefully... as it will save me some typing (or a C&P that goes awry, like one of my other recent posts did, lol):
Post #1110 (plz read the first part of my post there carefully): https://christianchat.com/threads/predestination-is-misunderstood.214056/post-5249470
I endeavored to lay out in that post what vv.4-7 is addressing (about the "believer"--"by grace YE ARE having-been saved [perfect participle]" speaking of those who BELIEVE... what is true of them [positionally], just the same as in Col2:13!)