Predestination is misunderstood...

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Everlasting-Grace said:
This is wrong

in order for this to happen God would have to remove the penalty of sin,

God does not make people alive before they Receive his grace in faith
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The penalty of sin is removed at the point of faith at which time justification simultaneously takes place.

Regeneration itself is an act of grace! When Jesus raised Lazarus from his tomb, that wasn't an act of grace?

Again, spiritually dead people have no spiritual ability to do anything pleasing to God. Read Romans 3.
 
Johann said:
NT HOLINESS / SANCTIFICATION

The NT asserts that when sinners turn to Jesus in repentance and faith (cf. Mark 1:15; Acts 3:16,19; 20:21), they are instantaneously justified and sanctified. This is their new position in Christ. His righteousness has been imputed to them (cf. Gen. 15:6; Romans 4). They are declared right and holy (a forensic act of God).

But the NT also urges believers on to holiness or sanctification. It is both a theological position in the finished work of Jesus Christ and a call to be Christlike in attitude and actions in daily life. As salvation is a free gift and a cost-everything lifestyle, so too, is sanctification.



Initial Response A Progressive Christlikeness
Acts 26:18
Romans 15:16
1 Corinthians 1:2-3; 6:11
2 Thessalonians 2:13
Hebrews 2:11; 10:10,14; 13:12
2 Peter 1:2 Romans 6:19
2 Cor. 7:1
Ephesians 1:4; 2:10
1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3-4,7; 5:2
1 Timothy 2:15
2 Timothy 2:21
1 Peter 1:15-16
Hebrews 12:14
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you missed this out

2 Corinthians 3:18



18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.


Which means sanctification is a process.

You must be a Jew if you don't teach water baptism is necessary to be saved.


Only a Jew could teach what you teach.

.
 
sawdust said:
They can if God first applies grace to their situation so they can respond of their own free will.

Even once we are alive, we still need grace first in order to understand the scriptures and live the Christian life.

No-one goes anywhere without grace.
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I believe salvation can only begin as God exercises grace towards an individual. And I believe that men of their own will freely and of an act of their own will accept the offer of salvation once made alive. But man in his natural and fallen estate is unaware of his need before God and is helpless to do anything about it...Ephesians 2:1-3. He is dead, being dominated by Satan, and doomed. Only God can change this. Ephesians 2:4...But God...
And you are correct. The same grace that brings salvation to men, is the grace that is necessary to live the life God had called us to, and will one day lead us home.
 
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Thunderrr-mental said:
You know all this which is correct,but still you deny you must be baptised to be saved. (Totally puzzling).

Also you stated publicly a disabled person was a troll, so you must state publicly this was a wrong thing to do.
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Being a troll has nothing to do with being disabled. You can be able-bodied and a troll, or disabled and a troll. It's a motivation issue, not a physical issue.
 
Dino246 said:
Being a troll has nothing to do with being disabled. You can be able-bodied and a troll, or disabled and a troll. It's a motivation issue, not a physical issue.
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  1. Ephesians 4:32 - "Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." Emphasizing the importance of kindness and forgiveness in our interactions with others, regardless of their behavior or circumstances.
  2. Proverbs 15:1 - "A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger." Encouraging a gentle and respectful response even in challenging situations.
  3. Matthew 7:12 - "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." Reminding us to treat others as we would like to be treated, regardless of their actions or background.
  4. Colossians 3:12-14 - "Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity." Encouraging a spirit of compassion, forgiveness, and love in our interactions with others.
J.
 
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Johann said:
  1. Ephesians 4:32 - "Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." Emphasizing the importance of kindness and forgiveness in our interactions with others, regardless of their behavior or circumstances.
  2. Proverbs 15:1 - "A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger." Encouraging a gentle and respectful response even in challenging situations.
  3. Matthew 7:12 - "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." Reminding us to treat others as we would like to be treated, regardless of their actions or background.
  4. Colossians 3:12-14 - "Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity." Encouraging a spirit of compassion, forgiveness, and love in our interactions with others.
J.
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You can hide behind the word of God all you like. It still doesn't change the fact, that you are a hypocrite, a false teacher, and someone who deliberately divides brothers,

Your also someone who is happy to see blood spilt to win an argument.
And have brothers be treated as fools. which makes you worthy of hell.

The wages for sin is death.
 
Thunderrr-mental said:
No, there's better ways to see predestined, and saved by Grace.

Predestined in the Calvinist view has its own meaning.

Just like predestined in other scriptures has different meanings.

Its a fact that God wills people's steps.

When we look at the word will, and do a study of God good will, we see many many scriptures Of God determining peoples steps.

So when a predestination and free will debate crops up.

All of this just gets over looked.

Because to many people are using a terminology created by one person, John Calvin to debate with.

Same for free will.

Many people associate free will as freedom to choose,

For most part when I speak with people who believe God saved them with an unmerited favour, i see there free will start to lake liberties.


Basically free will on a human level is by its own merit disastrous, and needs God's will to direct mankind's steps.

I am neither Calvinist or a gracey liberty taker,
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No, God "directs" people's steps. Big difference.

Proverbs 16:9
A man's heart deviseth his way but the Lord directeth his steps.

In other words We decide the path we want to take, but God directs the events and outcome of our decisions....andcontrols the consequences.
 
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Shepherd said:
No, God "directs" people's steps. Big difference.

Proverbs 16:9
A man's heart deviseth his way but the Lord directeth his steps.

In other words We decide the path we want to take, but God directs the events and outcome of our decisions....andcontrols the consequences.
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James 4:13-15 is one practical example.
 
Thunderrr-mental said:
you know fine well I'm upset, and you want to aggravate me even more,

Well go ahead and be friends with a false teacher, rather than someone who cares, your choice to cut of your nose to spite your face.

Good look with him.
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Don’t bother with your whining; just answer the question.
 
Shepherd said:
No, God "directs" people's steps. Big difference.

Proverbs 16:9
A man's heart deviseth his way but the Lord directeth his steps.

In other words We decide the path we want to take, but God directs the events and outcome of our decisions....andcontrols the consequences.
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let me guess you also believe, water baptism is not necessary to complete salvation.

But you know what, your statement alone here is the view point, that's comes from saving yourself.

I can go through 100s of scriptures where God wills your steps, which is needed to make salvation become complete.

But it probably will not do you any good.


Because why, well no doubt you've been sucked in with the rest of them,.to only preach against Christians with a bad view point of calvinism predestination

It's just so pathetic that so many people calling themselves Christians would use a Calvinist view point to ridicule predestination with.

What an absolute joke that is.
 
Cameron143 said:
James 4:13-15 is one practical example.
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James 4:13
Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.


Will to do God's will instead of our own.
 
Thunderrr-mental said:
let me guess you also believe, water baptism is not necessary to complete salvation. That is correct: I believe water baptism is not necessary for salvation. Example: Ever read about the "thief on the cross"?

But you know what, your statement alone here is the view point, that's comes from saving yourself. Not true

I can go through 100s of scriptures where God wills your steps, which is needed to make salvation become complete. Ok, verses?

But it probably will not do you any good. Who knows?


Because why, well no doubt you've been sucked in with the rest of them,.to only preach against Christians with a bad view point of calvinism predestination I don't understand what you mean. For the record, I believe Calvinism is false doctrine, but I believe "predestination" is a Bible doctrine which Calvinists get wrong.

It's just so pathetic that so many people calling themselves Christians would use a Calvinist view point to ridicule predestination with. Like I said, "predestination" is a Bible doctrine. I don't ridicule it as it's given in the Bible.

What an absolute joke that is. None of this is a "joke". to me.
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Thunderrr-mental said:
this is something that satan would say
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I don't believe in Predestination, OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), or Unconditional Eternal Security.

Free Will: Many passages that speak of human free will and responsibility, such as Joshua 24:15, Deuteronomy 30:19, and Revelation 22:17. Predestination contradicts free will, making salvation predetermined and human choices meaningless.


To: Everyone

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Noone on Earth brings new revelation, that isn't already revealed through the Word of God, which is fullest revelation given to man. Through the moving and operation of the Holy Ghost, I Pray what we say here brings the truth of these Revelations, truth by truth, or precept upon precept, to the heart of the hearer. Lay what we say before the feet of Jesus (Word of God) and compare, the Bible is Always truth, so if they don't match, we need to reevaluate our stance. What we say or do here will have lasting impact upon the believer and sinner alike. We most certainly have freedom of speech, but any true christian will weigh what they say against the Word of God and if they don't agree God is not in error, and we need to pray for understanding. Those that have more meat of the Word can help those who are struggling, if done with humility, peace and love. I don't mind a peaceful debate, but when we start to argue amongst each other that is not the Spirit of God. God Bless and Peace to you all. (This signature is in general and not pointing fingers at anyone at anytime. God Bless.)
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