Predestination is misunderstood...
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How about you stop yelling at me and put your thinking cap on.
Go to Athens where Paul had to inform them about their "Unknown God". To repent means to change what you think. They had no thought on God as they had no knowledge of Him. Repentance is not always necessary but believing in the message is most definitely always necessary. This is what the other poster was getting at. The Gentiles were not given the Law or the promises. In most instances the Gospel was completely new. Unlike for the Jews who were waiting on the Messiah and should have had a correct knowledge of God but were misinformed by the religious leaders and therefore needed to repent of the erroneous assumptions toward the truth of the God.
Incorrect-look at the Pronouns in the KJV.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Thanksgiving and Prayer
Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Eph 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
THROUGH Paul's letter he IS speaking to the saints in Ephesus.
No offense.
J.
29 Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. 30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
Cognate with Theos , there are three other words to be noted :
1. Theotes , rendered "Deity", and used of Christ. Occurs only in Col_2:9, and has relation to the Godhead personally ; while
2. Theiotes , rendered "Deity" also, is Deity in the abstract . Occurs only in Rom_1:20.
3. Theios , rendered "Divine", and is used of Christ. Occurs only in 2Pe_1:3; 2Pe_1:4; and, with the Article, in Act_17:29, where it is rendered "Godhead". Gr. = that which [is] Divine.
J.
Rom 1:28 Καὶ Kai|G2532|Conj|And καθὼς kathōs|G2531|Adv|as οὐκ ouk|G3756|Adv|not ἐδοκίμασαν edokimasan|G1381|V-AIA-3P|they did see fit τὸν ton|G3588|Art-AMS|- Θεὸν Theon|G2316|N-AMS|God ἔχειν echein|G2192|V-PNA|to have ἐν en|G1722|Prep|in [their] ἐπιγνώσει, epignōsei|G1922|N-DFS|knowledge, παρέδωκεν paredōken|G3860|V-AIA-3S|gave up αὐτοὺς autous|G846|PPro-AM3P|them ὁ ho|G3588|Art-NMS|- Θεὸς Theos|G2316|N-NMS|God εἰς eis|G1519|Prep|to ἀδόκιμον adokimon|G96|Adj-AMS|a depraved νοῦν, noun|G3563|N-AMS|mind, ποιεῖν poiein|G4160|V-PNA|to do τὰ ta|G3588|Art-ANP|things μὴ mē|G3361|Adv|not καθήκοντα, kathēkonta|G2520|V-PPA-ANP|being proper;
Rom 1:29 πεπληρωμένους
God ἔχουσιν, echousin|G2192|V-PIA-3P|they have, ἀλλ’ all’|G235|Conj|but οὐ ou|G3756|Adv|not κατ’ kat’|G2596|Prep|according to ἐπίγνωσιν· epignōsin|G1922|N-AFS|knowledge.
You can search the rest-full, precise knowledge.
From G1921; recognition, that is, (by implication) full discernment, acknowledgement: - (ac-) knowledge (-ing, -ment).
ginóskó G1097 [to know, understand]
gnósis G1108 [knowledge]
epiginóskó G1921 [to know, recognize]
epignósis G1922 [knowledge, recognition]
kataginóskó G2607 [to condemn]
akatagnóstos G176 [not condemned]
proginóskó G4267 [to, foreknow]
prognósis G4268 [foreknowledge]
syngnome [forbearance]
gnómé G1106 [intention, opinion]
gnórizó G1107 [to make known, to know]
gnóstos G1110 [known]
ginosko, gnosis, epiginosko, epignosis
A. The Greek Usage. The ordinary use is for intelligent comprehension ("to perceive," "to understand," "to know"), at first with a stress on the act. As distinct from aisthanesthai, ginosko emphasizes understanding rather than sensory perception, and as distinct from dokein it is a perception of things as they are, not an opinion about them. Related to episteme, gnosis needs an objective genitive and suggests the act of knowing rather than knowledge as such. This act embraces every organ and mode of knowledge, e.g., by seeing, hearing, investigation, or experience, and of people as well as things. Supremely, however, knowledge implies verification by the eye; hence the dominant concept is that of knowledge by objective observation. This is related to the Greek view of reality. Reality consist of forms and figures, or of the elements and principles that shape them. The truly real is timeless reality that is constant in every change. Those who see or know this possess and control it. Hence knowledge of what really is constitutes the supreme possibility in life. Those who know participate in the eternal. They are thus capable, as Plato thinks, of right political action, or may achieve the ideal, as Aristotle thinks, of disinterested scientific contemplation.
J.
This is what I see also. Do we know that his letter actually got to those saints.
At the start of his letter he says This
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
What does Grace mean here,
I want to know what Grace means here.
Grace and peace to you from our God are Father and the lord Jesus Christ.
And I want to know what Grace means in saved by Grace.
Then I was to know Why he Says God the father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
I was asking your ability to give me a Good punch line, and of course to slip the jab
I am serious-do you have a Bible program and how do you study? No jabs-yet.
J.
I was just joking with you, johann
Well as we see in Paul's letter which is quite a big letter, in Ephesians 1 he says, I have been praying for you to receive wisdom.
Then what I can see is the reason for the letter is, he his writing down what he has said in his prayer. And what he has had answered in his prayer. ?
Then also in Ephesians 1 and Two we see the word Grace used in two different expressions.
One would have to conclude Grace means good will.
But he says you have been saved by Good will to the Ephesus saints.
Is Paul sayin God chose you to the saints of Ephesus.
Because he said You believed first
A. The truths of this book have impacted the lives of many saints
1. Samuel Coleridge called it "the most divine composition of man"
2. John Calvin called it his favorite book of the Bible
3. John Knox asked that Calvin's sermons on Ephesians be read to him on his deathbed
B. This book has been called the "crowning jewel," or capstone, of Paul's theology. All of the great themes of Paul started in Galatians, developed in Romans, and are now expressed in Ephesians in a wonderful summary fashion.
C. As God used Romans to instigate the Reformation, He will use Ephesians to reunite splintered churches and Christendom. Believers' unity and commonality in Christ far overshadow their differences.
AUTHOR
A. Paul
1. Expressly stated in Eph. 1:1, 3:1
2. Reference to imprisonment (probably in Rome) in Eph. 3:1; 4:1; 6:20
3. Almost unanimous church tradition
a. Clement of Rome, in a.d. 95, wrote a letter to Corinth that quotes Eph. 4:4-6
b. Ignatius (a.d. 30-107) quotes from Eph. 1:9; 2:19; 3:4-9
c. Polycarp (a.d. 65-155), the disciple of John the Apostle, and the bishop of Smyrna asserts Paul's authorship
d. Irenaeus (a.d. 130-200) asserts Paul's authorship
e. Clement of Alexandria (a.d. 150-210) asserts Paul's authorship
4. It is listed in
a. Marcion's (who came to Rome in a.d. 140's) list of accepted books
b. Muratorian Fragment (a.d. 180-200), a list of canonical books from Rome and placed it in Paul's writings
5. The closings of both Colossians and Ephesians have 29 words that are almost exactly the same in Greek (there are two additional words in Colossians.).
B. Another Author
1. Erasmus was the first to doubt Paul's authorship based on
a. Style - long sentences that are very uncharacteristic of Paul's other letters
b. No personal greetings
c. Unique vocabulary
2. 18th-Century critical scholarship began to deny Paul's authorship
a. Several verses seem to be from a second generation believer, Eph. 2:20; 3:5
b. Theological words were used with differing definitions (example: "mystery")
c. Uniqueness of the genre of a cyclical or circular letter
C. Answers to Erasmus' points
1. The style is different because Paul had time to think when writing Ephesians while in prison.
2. The absence of a personal greeting is explained by the fact that Ephesians was a cyclical letter that was to be sent to many churches in the area. A Roman postal route which included Ephesus and the Lycus River Valley can be seen in Revelation 2-3. Paul wrote a twin letter, Colossians, to a specific group of three churches which included several personal greetings.
3. The number of unique words in the book of Ephesians is exactly the same as the number of unique words (hapax legomena) in the book of Romans. The purpose, subject matter, recipients and occasion explain the use of new words.
4. Paul speaks of "apostles and prophets" in 1 Corinthians 12:28, which is similar to Eph. 2:20 and 3:5. No one denies Paul's authorship of 1 Corinthians.
THE LITERARY RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN COLOSSIANS AND EPHESIANS
A. The historical relationship between Colossians and Ephesians
1. Epaphras (Col. 1:7; 4:12; Philemon 23) was converted during Paul's Ephesian campaign (Acts 19)
a. He took his newly found faith back to his home area, the Lycus River Valley.
b. He started three churches-in Hierapolis, Laodicea and Colossae.
c. Epaphras sought Paul for advice on how to combat the merging of world-views by the heretics. Paul was in prison at Rome (early 60's).
2. False teachers came and began to merge the gospel with Greek ontology
a. spirit and matter were co-eternal
b. spirit (God) was good
c. matter (creation) was evil
d. a series of aeons (angelic levels) existed between the good high God and a lesser god who formed matter
e. salvation was based on knowledge of secret passwords which helped people progress through the aeons (angelic levels)
B. The literary relationship between Paul's two letters
1. Paul heard of the heresy in these churches which he had never visited personally from Epaphras.
2. Paul wrote a hard-hitting letter in short, emotional sentences, directed at the false teachers. The central theme was the cosmic lordship of Jesus. This is known as Paul's letter to the Colossians.
3. Apparently, soon after writing Colossians, with time on his hands in prison, he developed these same themes. Ephesians is characterized by long sentences and developed theological concepts (Eph. 1:3-14, 15-23; 2:1-10, 14-18, 19-22; 3:1-12, 14-19; 4:11-16; 6:13-20). It takes Colossians as a starting point and draws out its theological implications. Ephesians' central theme is the unity of all things in Christ, which was a contrast to the incipient Gnostic concept.
C. Related literary and theological structure
1. Similarity of the basic structure
a. they have very similar openings
b. they have doctrinal sections dealing primarily with Christ
c. they have practical sections admonishing Christian lifestyle using the same categories, terms and phrases
d. they have closing verses exactly alike in 29 consecutive words in Greek, with only two different words added in Colossians.
2. Similarity of words or short phrases
Eph. 1:1c and Col. 1:2a
Eph.1:4 and Col. 1:22
Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14
Eph. 1:10 and Col. 1:20
Eph. 1:15 and Col. 1:3-4
Eph. 1:18 and Col. 1:27
Eph. 1:27 and Col. 1:18
Eph. 2:1 and Col. 1:13
Eph. 2:16 and Col. 1:20
Eph. 3:2 and Col. 1:25
Eph. 3:3 and Col. 1:26,27
Eph. 4:3 and Col. 3:14
Eph. 4:15 and Col. 2:19
Eph. 4:24 and Col. 3:10, 12, 14
Eph. 4:31 and Col. 3:8
Eph. 5:3 and Col. 3:5
Eph. 5:5 and Col.3:5
Eph. 5:6 and Col. 3:6
Eph. 5:16 and Col. 4:5 "faithful"
"holy and blameless"
"redemption. . .forgiveness"
"all things. . .heaven. . .earth"
"heard. . .love for all the saints"
"the riches of the glory"
"head. . .church"
"you were dead"
"reconcile. . .cross"
"stewardship"
"mystery"
"unity"
"head" and "grow"
"put on . . ."
"anger" "wrath" "malice" "slander"
"immorality" "impurity" "greed"
"idolatry" (coveting)
"the wrath of God"
"making the most of the time"
3. Exact phrases or sentences
Eph. 1:1a and Col 1:1a
Eph. 1:1b and Col. 1:2a
Eph. 1:2a and Col. 1:2b
Eph. 1:13 and Col. 1:5
Eph. 2:1 and Col. 2:13
Eph. 2:5b and Col. 2:13c
Eph. 4:1b and Col. 1:10a
Eph. 6:21,22 and Col. 4:7-9 (29 consecutive words except for "kai syndoulos" in Colossians)
4. Similar phrases or sentences
Eph. 1:21 and Col. 1:16
Eph. 2:1 and Col. 1:13
Eph. 2:16 and Col. 1:20
Eph. 3:7a and Col. 1:23d, 25a
Eph. 3:8 and Col. 1:27
Eph. 4:2 and Col. 3:12
Eph. 4:29 and Col. 3:8; 4:6
Eph. 5:15 and Col. 4:5
Eph. 5:19,20 and Col. 3:16
5. Theologically synonymous concepts
Eph. 1:3 and Col. 1:3
Eph. 2:1,12 and Col. 1:21
Eph. 2:15 and Col. 2:14
Eph. 4:1 and Col 1:10
Eph. 4:15 and Col. 2:19
Eph. 4:19 and Col. 3:5
Eph.4:22,31 and Col. 3:8
Eph.4:32 and Col. 3:12-13
Eph. 5:4 and Col. 3:8
Eph. 5:18 and Col. 3:16
Eph. 5:20 and Col. 3:17
Eph. 5:22 and Col. 3:18
Eph. 5:25 and Col. 3:19
Eph. 6:1 and Col. 3:20
Eph. 6:4 and Col. 3:21
Eph. 6:5 and Col. 3:22
Eph. 6:9 and Col. 4:1
Eph. 6:18 and Col. 4:2-4 a prayer of thanks
alienation from God
hostility of Law
worthy walk
Christ's body growing to maturity from its Head
sexual impurity
"lay aside" sins
Christians kind to one another
Christian speech
filling of Spirit = word of Christ
thanksgiving to God for all things
wives be subject to husbands
husbands love your wives
children obey your parents
fathers do not provoke children
slaves obey masters
masters and slaves
Paul's request for prayer
6. Terms and phrases used in both Colossians and Ephesians which are not found in other Pauline literature
a. "fullness" (which was the Gnostic term for the angelic levels)
Eph. 1:23
Eph. 3:19
Eph. 4:13
Col. 1:19
Col. 2:9 "the fullness of Him who fills all in all"
"be filled up to all the fullness of God"
"to the fullness of Christ"
"for all the fullness to dwell in Him"
"for in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells"
b. Christ as "Head" of the church
Eph. 4:15; 5:23 and Col. 1:18; 2:19
c. "alienated"
Eph. 2:12; 4:18 and Col. 1:21
d. "redeeming the time"
Eph. 5:16 and Col. 4:5
e. "rooted"
Eph. 3:17 and Col. 1:5
f. "the word of truth, the gospel"
Eph. 1:13 and Col. 1:5
g. "forbearing"
Eph. 4:2 and Col. 3:13
h. unusual phrasing and terms ("held together," "supply")
Eph. 4:16 and Col. 2:19
D. Summary
1. Over one third of the words in Colossians are in Ephesians. It has been estimated that 75 of the 155 verses in Ephesians have a parallel in Colossians. Both claim Paul's authorship while in prison.
2. Both were delivered by Paul's friend Tychicus.
3. Both were sent to the same area (Asia Minor).
4. Both deal with the same Christological topic.
5. Both emphasize Christ as head of the church.
6. Both encourage appropriate Christian living.
J.
lol that was a full 12 rounds
Starting at round one am I right in thinking, Paul was trying to be subtle, but at the same time, lecture the Ephesus saints, for not realising God saved them, Because they believed first,
Would I also be correct in assuming Paul had heard the esphesu saints Where spreading heresy, and so he prayed To God the father, who the gave him the words to write to the saints of Ephesus.
Then also would this mean, Paul was a prophet, and that heresy is something that God forgives.
lol that was a full 12 rounds
Starting at round one am I right in thinking, Paul was trying to be subtle, but at the same time, lecture the Ephesus saints, for not realising God saved them, Because they believed first,
Would I also be correct in assuming Paul had heard the esphesu saints Where spreading heresy, and so he prayed To God the father, who the gave him the words to write to the saints of Ephesus.
Then also would this mean, Paul was a prophet, and that heresy is something that God forgives.
Paul is not generally considered a prophet in the traditional sense. However, some scholars argue that Paul presents himself as a member of the prophetic tradition
. In 1 Corinthians 11:23, Paul speaks as if he was sharing a revelation from God, rather than a tradition taught to him by the other apostles, which could be interpreted as a form of didactic prophecy
. In 2 Corinthians 12:1, Paul claims to have had visions and revelations from the Lord, but he does not hold himself out as a prophet per se-but a apostle.
Knockout.
J.