Pre or post Adam

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Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
#103
Jun 24, 2020
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#103
2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:
We should just get this straightened out then:

lust /lÅ­st/ (from The American Heritage Dictionary)

noun
  1. Intense sexual desire.
  2. An overwhelming desire or craving.
    "a lust for power."
  3. Intense eagerness or enthusiasm.
    "a lust for life."
It just depends on word usage and I think Bob meant it as definition #3.

With that said, I agree with you that Jesus doesn't lust in His heart in the sense of definition #1 - having intense sexual desire, or definition #2 - having idolatrous desire or craving. He always had self-control which He exhibited all throughout the gospels. He won't ever allow lust to overtake Him!


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That's to say that Jesus NEVER ALLOWED HIS LUST TO CONCEIVE (the language is sexual) "Conception" will result in a birth - in this case a "Birth" of SINFUL ACTIONS (James 1:5). It's clear that Jesus experienced "Temptations" Just like us - which would include Sexual temptation (He was a human MAN, after all), and the devil hit Him with HUNGER (when he'd been told to fast), Reputation (prove who he was by Popular demonstration), and POWER (Adam's dominance that satan has appropriated). soi while Jesus "Lusted" in the James 1 sense, he remained SIN FREE - so that He could be the perfect sacrifice.

Jesus' temptations parallel Eve's temptations in the garden.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#104
Oct 12, 2017
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#104
Bob-Carabbio said:
That's to say that Jesus NEVER ALLOWED HIS LUST TO CONCEIVE (the language is sexual) "Conception" will result in a birth - in this case a "Birth" of SINFUL ACTIONS (James 1:5). It's clear that Jesus experienced "Temptations" Just like us - which would include Sexual temptation (He was a human MAN, after all), and the devil hit Him with HUNGER (when he'd been told to fast), Reputation (prove who he was by Popular demonstration), and POWER (Adam's dominance that satan has appropriated). soi while Jesus "Lusted" in the James 1 sense, he remained SIN FREE - so that He could be the perfect sacrifice.

Jesus' temptations parallel Eve's temptations in the garden.
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Bob I think you need to "lust" for more truth to think with.

That is the only thing that can help you.

Otherwise, your public witness to the world will prove to be an embarrassment to most Christians.

That's the big problem. It is a bad witness.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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#105
Jun 24, 2020
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#105
Magenta said:
And I am still unclear about whether you consider that A&E actually fell after sinning.
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It's clear that they BECAME SINNERS, and fell short of God's glory - just like you and I did. Theologically, theres the HERESY that Adam, and Eve's NATURE changed. That's in error since they were created with the SAME HUMAN NATURE that you and I have, and that never changed. James 1 explains the process of temptation. You, I, and Eve / Adam allowed our temptation to "Conceive". Jesus didn't.

Simple as that.

There's no argument that Adam's ENVIRONMENT changed - became subject to "Vanity" since the ground was CURSED (for his sake). but Adam and Eve WERE NEVER CURSED - they only became Sinners as the result of their SIN.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#106
Oct 12, 2017
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#106
Bob-Carabbio said:
It's clear that they BECAME SINNERS, and fell short of God's glory - just like you and I did.
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We did when Adam sinned. Not after we were born and committed our first sin.
We were born with a fallen nature that would automatically latch onto sin like baby latches onto his mother's milk.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#107
Jul 3, 2015
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#107
Bob-Carabbio said:
It's clear that they BECAME SINNERS, and fell short of God's glory - just like you and I did. Theologically, theres the HERESY that Adam, and Eve's NATURE changed. That's in error since they were created with the SAME HUMAN NATURE that you and I have, and that never changed. James 1 explains the process of temptation. You, I, and Eve / Adam allowed our temptation to "Conceive". Jesus didn't.

Simple as that.

There's no argument that Adam's ENVIRONMENT changed - became subject to "Vanity" since the ground was CURSED (for his sake). but Adam and Eve WERE NEVER CURSED - they only became Sinners as the result of their SIN.
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Thank you for clarifying, Bob. I do know the verses to which you refer, and I have what I call my shadow man panel with them on it, but it still seems to me that since people are born by nature children of wrath, which was inherited from Adam and Eve, that something must have changed, especially since those words, by nature, are explicitly stated. Surely you do not think A and E were by nature children of wrath prior to sinning? By the way, I have never said they were cursed. Just clarifying that point...


James 1 verses 14-15; 1 John 2 verse 16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .:)
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#108
Oct 12, 2017
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#108
Magenta said:
Thank you for clarifying, Bob. I do know the verses to which you refer, and I have what I call my shadow man panel with them on it, but it still seems to me that since people are born by nature children of wrath, which was inherited from Adam and Eve, that something must have changed, especially since those words, by nature, are explicitly stated. Surely you do not think A and E were by nature children of wrath prior to sinning? By the way, I have never said they were cursed. Just clarifying that point...
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Ephesians 2:3

Among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh,
fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature
children of wrath, just as the others.

He does not believe that.
And, most likely found some way to push his way passed it while acting like he is doing nothing wrong.

James 1 verses 14-15; 1 John 2 verse 16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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#109
Jun 24, 2020
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#109
Magenta said:
SUrely you do not think A and E were by nature children of wrath prior to sinning?
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Correct. A&E were "Innocent as created", and they came complete with the SAME HUMAN NATURE that you me and Jesus had. WHen they "SINNED and fell short of God's glory" is when they became "Childre4n of wrath" but Eve was given the solution - i.e. the "Seed of the woman" = Jesus. SAme goes for us we're "Innocent as born", and remain so UNTIL we do what A&E did and fall short.
 
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