It will be unpleasant at times.....This discourse has been so unpleasant, I don't care anymore.
Pre or post Adam
- Thread starter TMS
- Start date
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I don't blame you.This discourse has been so unpleasant, I don't care anymore.
I find it to be an unpleasant task.
We should just get this straightened out then:
lust /lÅst/ (from The American Heritage Dictionary)
noun
It just depends on word usage and I think Bob meant it as definition #3.
- Intense sexual desire.
- An overwhelming desire or craving.
"a lust for power."- Intense eagerness or enthusiasm.
"a lust for life."
With that said, I agree with you that Jesus doesn't lust in His heart in the sense of definition #1 - having intense sexual desire, or definition #2 - having idolatrous desire or craving. He always had self-control which He exhibited all throughout the gospels. He won't ever allow lust to overtake Him!
That's to say that Jesus NEVER ALLOWED HIS LUST TO CONCEIVE (the language is sexual) "Conception" will result in a birth - in this case a "Birth" of SINFUL ACTIONS (James 1:5). It's clear that Jesus experienced "Temptations" Just like us - which would include Sexual temptation (He was a human MAN, after all), and the devil hit Him with HUNGER (when he'd been told to fast), Reputation (prove who he was by Popular demonstration), and POWER (Adam's dominance that satan has appropriated). soi while Jesus "Lusted" in the James 1 sense, he remained SIN FREE - so that He could be the perfect sacrifice.
Jesus' temptations parallel Eve's temptations in the garden.
Bob I think you need to "lust" for more truth to think with.
That is the only thing that can help you.
Otherwise, your public witness to the world will prove to be an embarrassment to most Christians.
That's the big problem. It is a bad witness.
It's clear that they BECAME SINNERS, and fell short of God's glory - just like you and I did. Theologically, theres the HERESY that Adam, and Eve's NATURE changed. That's in error since they were created with the SAME HUMAN NATURE that you and I have, and that never changed. James 1 explains the process of temptation. You, I, and Eve / Adam allowed our temptation to "Conceive". Jesus didn't.
Simple as that.
There's no argument that Adam's ENVIRONMENT changed - became subject to "Vanity" since the ground was CURSED (for his sake). but Adam and Eve WERE NEVER CURSED - they only became Sinners as the result of their SIN.
We did when Adam sinned. Not after we were born and committed our first sin.
We were born with a fallen nature that would automatically latch onto sin like baby latches onto his mother's milk.
Thank you for clarifying, Bob. I do know the verses to which you refer, and I have what I call my shadow man panel with them on it, but it still seems to me that since people are born by nature children of wrath, which was inherited from Adam and Eve, that something must have changed, especially since those words, by nature, are explicitly stated. Surely you do not think A and E were by nature children of wrath prior to sinning? By the way, I have never said they were cursed. Just clarifying that point...
James 1 verses 14-15; 1 John 2 verse 16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .
Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh,
fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature
children of wrath, just as the others.
He does not believe that.
And, most likely found some way to push his way passed it while acting like he is doing nothing wrong.
James 1 verses 14-15; 1 John 2 verse 16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the
Correct. A&E were "Innocent as created", and they came complete with the SAME HUMAN NATURE that you me and Jesus had. WHen they "SINNED and fell short of God's glory" is when they became "Childre4n of wrath" but Eve was given the solution - i.e. the "Seed of the woman" = Jesus. SAme goes for us we're "Innocent as born", and remain so UNTIL we do what A&E did and fall short.