Post Trib Rapture?
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R
Ruby123
Guest
Again, and again, and again. Will it sink in? The GT is an event that has never happened and will never happen again. Physical Jerusalem was destroy before. Put an X through 70 ad.
You should know better because Jesus pointed to a temple and said destroy this temple and I will build it in 3 days. Was he talking about what He just pointed too?
Matthew 26:61 KJV
And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
What say ye?[/QUOTE]
What is plain, straightforward and clear in the words of Jesus has been successfully obfuscated over the years.
You should know better because Jesus pointed to a temple and said destroy this temple and I will build it in 3 days. Was he talking about what He just pointed too?
Matthew 26:61 KJV
And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
What say ye?[/QUOTE]
What is plain, straightforward and clear in the words of Jesus has been successfully obfuscated over the years.
exactly this is about Jesus death and resurrection the Jews didn’t understand so they thought “ he’s talking about the temple”
He was saying “ your going to kill me but in three days I’m going to ride up again “
And here he’s talking about the temple he’s showing the buildings of in Jerusalem
“And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
Matthew 24:1-2 KJV
the temple of God now since the gospel is the body of Christ us we are the temple where the spirit dwells and meets us
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
“And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
2 Corinthians 6:16 KJV
awe no longer have a need for a building where preists go in and deal with God on our behalf Jesus is in us dealing with us himself within us his spirit dwells we are now the temple of God
there will never be a need for a man made temple again that was a shadow Christ has become the reality of those foreshadows
God doesn’t live in any building man makes he lives in the hearts of believers where he performs all
Of the spiritual ordinance as our high priest and intercessor and mediator and lord
a just a study of world history will show Jesus words about this became true in 67-70 ad when Jesus spend temple was raised to the ground and even every stone was separated because of the gold melted between the stones when it was burned down by Rome
We don’t need a building in Jerusalem now God is with us in us this time has come
“Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
John 4:21, 23-24
The Old Testament revolves around the temple the new revolves around the holt spirit in a believer by the name of Jesus Christ
Yes - correct.
No - I certainly don't believe that.
What I believe is indicated/illustrated on the web pages of my website. If you are interested, go look at the web pages in the 'Study' section - and, in this case - particularly, the 'Olivet Discourse' and 'Time Line' pages.
I believe that 'Jacob's trouble' is Armageddon.
But, it does - and, it is not inconceivable. You just need to look at it in the context of the prophecy and the 'Times of the Jews/Gentiles' historical perspective.
The end of the 70 weeks is when the 'Times of the Jews' ended and the 'Times of the Gentiles' began.
Paul, not Peter.
God is love and loves all people and will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him so He is giving all people that do not love Him 7 years to have their way and go against the truth and follow the New Age Christ and when they do He will end sin on Earth.
The Bible says there is only 2 resurrections one of the saints and one of the dead after that.
When God gets His children off the Earth no Gentile can be saved after that and God will work with the Jews to bring them to the truth.
Whoever misses the first resurrection has to go to the second resurrection and the saints that are hypocritical will not make it in the first resurrection so if any Gentile misses the first resurrection they cannot be saved.
As long as the world has salvation available to them then the saints will remain on Earth as a witness to the truth.
During the first three and one half years salvation is still available to the world so the saints will remain on Earth.
The world has salvation until the world takes the mark of the beast which will happen in the Middle of the 7 years period and then salvation is no longer available to the world and God can end sin on Earth.
When the world takes the mark of the beast then the saints can be resurrected.
Which is why Paul said the saints cannot be gathered on to Christ until there is a falling away first which is when the world stops the preaching of the Gospel on a world wide scale all governments supporting it, and the man of sin claims to be God which is in the Middle of the 7 years period.
But then the Bible says that the beast makes war against the saints and prevails against them, and they are given in to his hands for three and one half years, and when he shall accomplish to scatter the power of the holy people then all things are finished which then comes the end when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father.
Some people believe that they a pre-trib resurrection because they believe God's wrath is in the 7 years period but God's wrath is not in the 7 years period because God is giving the world 7 years to have their way.
And the tribulation period is not for the world but is against the saints and it is only during the last three and one half years.
The wrath of God does not happen until after the 7 years period.
The first three and one half years salvation is still available to the world so the wrath of God would not be there like it is not here when salvation is available to the world.
The beast has power over all nations, kindreds, and tongues, and has power to continue for three and one half years ruling the world and he can only have this power if God gives it to him so the wrath of God is not there.
The wrath of God is not until the 7 years period is over.
The phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" (distinct from "the FULNESS of the Gentiles") refers to "Gentile domination over Israel" which started in 606/605bc (Neb's "dream / statue / image" and involves "[Jerusalem] TRODDEN DOWN OF the Gentiles..." [comp: Rev11:2]... That is not referring to "gentiles being saved since the first century" kind of thing, as many suppose.)
See my earlier post #156.
Acts 13:2 is when Paul's ministry to the Gentiles begins. About 48AD give or take.
Of course this puts a huge dent in your theory.
“AND THE LESSON WASN'T THE PHYSICAL temple “
a you are exactly having the same response the Jews had they like you thought he was talking about the building in Jerusalem but if one actually reads there’s no possible way to make that incorrect interpretation observe
“Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
( this is where you’d be at ) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
( because like you they weren’t listening) But he spake of the temple of his body.”
John 2:19-21 KJV
Just as Jesus temple was destroyed when he died he’s going to raise up our temple also after it’s destroyed
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
Its really easy to understand but we have to let what Jesus is saying correct what we think beforehand
In the old testament they were given a pattern to build a temple in the temple Gods spirit ups commune with the high priest and he would stone with blood for the peoples sins they sacrificed a goat and let another goat live to bear the peoples sins away
what many can’t see is Jesus fulfills all of that he is the temple , in which God dwells , he is the high priest who reconciled us and atoned for our sins with his own blood one time forever for all who believe Jesus became the sacrifice of atonement and he also became the scapegoat offering that bears the peoples sins away from them
The man mad temple isn’t needed anymore hats why it hasn’t been rebuilt for two thousand years since it was destroyed in 67 -70s three years wife and destruction of Jerusalem.
and thats exactly what made then desolate but again Jesus tells three parables that illustrate this perfectly too many of us refuse to study what the lord actually said bout all this stuff like the whole rapture fiascoe
jesus makes it really clear when he’s going to return and gather his elect people in relation tonthe great tribulation
Immediately after the tribulation is just a fact but many Christian’s won’t hear Christ
“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
Mark 13:24-27 KJV
Christians need to hear and believe Christ the truth of we do that we don’t have to guess about when he will father his elect people the church is the elect of God
“Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;”
Colossians 3:12 KJV
The church ( the only people going to be saved ) will be gathered after the tribulation but Christianity becomes “ whats your version of God ?”
Its about Jesus versions of all these subjects were suppose to believe him and be saved he isn’t ambiguous but quite and repetitively clear
Thank you for asking. = )
Yes, I did view it once, and was purposing to watch it again a second time BEFORE I COMMENTED on it. lol
Overall, I think it is a very good video.
(I still have some issues with what I'd already put in the other thread BEFORE I watched it: namely, what year it was that He was crucified... and [not sure I mentioned this there] how the "70 YEARS of Captivity" [Dan9 first part of chpt] actually lasted something like "69 yrs, 1 day" [in our kind of years], so that this provides [for "the WISE" of] Israel [in the coming time] the KEY to "understanding" what things that others [the "wicked" etc] "will NOT understand"--I won't go into all that here, but it has to do with how the "time-prophecies [concerning Israel]" are factored, such as the "70 WEEKS" time-prophecy [concerning Israel and the holy city/Jerusalem] in the latter part of Dan9)
Hope that makes sense... I do hope to view the video for a second time, and then take my comments over to that other thread (I've not had the chance to fire up my "video-viewing" [requiring peace and quiet surroundings, here] since I first watched it. lol. I hope to take some specific notes when I listen again.
One thing I did want to comment on, was that many years ago [on a different, old discussion board no longer in existence], we used to discuss "time-prophecies" that also connect the Assyrian captivity--but I forget, off the top of my head, just what details we used [as far as year-amounts and so forth]... and I think I recall this video covers that matter a bit also, right?)
Again, thank you very much for asking (and my apologies for being "so slow" to get back to that... I like to be as thorough as possible, even in my "listening [/viewing-vids]"... lol)
Right!
We agree on these ^ points (in quotes above)!
Glad we can agree on this point, at least for the most part! Woo!
[John 2:13-22 is not the same context as Matt24:1-2 and its parallels]
R
RichMan
Guest
I suggest you look up the Greek word translated elect in Matthew 24:31.
It does not refer to Israel but to the saints, those saved by their trust in Jesus.
I believe this is the trump Paul was speaking of in 1 Cor.15:52 and 1 Thess. 4:16 and corresponds with the seventh/last trump in Rev.
Seems like a better fit than what you suggest.
If memory serves, GaryA believes that when Jesus said, "when ye shall SEE the abomination [singular] of desolation [singular] by Daniel the prophet," that He meant "[see something] LIKE" what Daniel referred to... He in no way believes that Daniel 12:11's (with its specific "day-amounts") "the abomination [singular] of desolation [singular] SET UP [H5414]" refers to anything FUTURE TO JESUS' words in Matt24... but that Jesus was actually saying, "when you see something LIKE that [the AOD in HISTORY/PAST]"
I have.
The word "elect" is also used in the phrase "the elect angels"... but no one insists that Matt24:31 is speaking of them.
Why don't we? Because we can tell by both the surrounding contexts, as well as what the OT prophecies had already SAID about this "GREAT" trumpet circumstances and "who" it involves... though many do disregard what the OT had said regarding it.
[Acts 3:21 - "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age." -- WHAT THINGS did the OT prophets "speak" of?? Because that was Jesus' Subject in His Olivet Discourse... [except for the 12 verses in Lk12 about the 70ad events, and a few other verses like Matt24:1-2 and its parallels Mk13:1-2 and Lk21:5-6]... His Subject in His Olivet Discourse was NOWHERE about "rapture / snatch / caught up [G726] [IN THE AIR]" nor even alluding to it; Rather, it's all about His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom... just as Matt24:42-51's PARALLEL in Lk12:36-37,38,40 says, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the MEAL [G347; see this word also in Mt8:11 and parallel, re: the MK age]"]
Again, it is important for us to do as Scripture tells us to do, to be "correctly apportioning the word of truth" and "distinguishing the things which differ"... and not just lumping everything into one big mish-mash of mush
Matthew 24
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Again, how do you know Jesus was not looking NOR POINTED at the temple with the Jews?
One poster here at CC says that because Matthew 2:15 speaks of "Out of Egypt have I called My son," that therefore ALL of Hosea 11 must be speaking of Jesus every time it mentions the word "Israel" in Hosea 11:
Out of Egypt I Called My Son
(Matthew 2:13–15)
1When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called My son.a
2But the more I called Israel,
the farther they departed from Me.b
They sacrificed to the Baals
and burned incense to carved images.
3It was I who taught Ephraimc to walk,
taking them in My arms,
but they never realized
that it was I who healed them.
4I led them with cords of kindness,
with ropes of love;
I lifted the yoke from their necks
and bent down to feed them.
5Will they not return to the land of Egypt
and be ruled by Assyria
because they refused to repent?
6A sword will flash through their cities;
it will destroy the bars of their gates
and consume them in their own plans.
7My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call to the Most High,
He will by no means exalt them.
God’s Love for Israel
8How could I give you up, O Ephraim?
How could I surrender you, O Israel?
How could I make you like Admah?
How could I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned within Me;
My compassion is stirred!
9I will not execute the full fury of My anger;
I will not turn back to destroy Ephraim.
For I am God and not man—
the Holy One among you—
and I will not come in wrath.
10They will walk after the LORD;
He will roar like a lion.
When He roars,
His children will come trembling from the west.
11They will come trembling like birds from Egypt
and like doves from the land of Assyria.
Then I will settle them in their homes,
declares the LORD.
12Ephraim surrounds Me with lies,
the house of Israel with deceit;
but Judah still walks with God
and is faithful to the Holy One.d
Footnotes:
1 a Cited in Matthew 2:15
2 b LXX; Hebrew The more they called them, the more they went from them.
3 c That is, the northern kingdom of Israel; also in verses 8, 9, and 12
12 d Or and Judah is unruly against God, the faithful Holy One
Is that poster correct?? No.
If he is not correct (and I believe he is not), then WHY not? (he would ask)
Out of Egypt I Called My Son
(Matthew 2:13–15)
1When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called My son.a
2But the more I called Israel,
the farther they departed from Me.b
They sacrificed to the Baals
and burned incense to carved images.
3It was I who taught Ephraimc to walk,
taking them in My arms,
but they never realized
that it was I who healed them.
4I led them with cords of kindness,
with ropes of love;
I lifted the yoke from their necks
and bent down to feed them.
5Will they not return to the land of Egypt
and be ruled by Assyria
because they refused to repent?
6A sword will flash through their cities;
it will destroy the bars of their gates
and consume them in their own plans.
7My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call to the Most High,
He will by no means exalt them.
God’s Love for Israel
8How could I give you up, O Ephraim?
How could I surrender you, O Israel?
How could I make you like Admah?
How could I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned within Me;
My compassion is stirred!
9I will not execute the full fury of My anger;
I will not turn back to destroy Ephraim.
For I am God and not man—
the Holy One among you—
and I will not come in wrath.
10They will walk after the LORD;
He will roar like a lion.
When He roars,
His children will come trembling from the west.
11They will come trembling like birds from Egypt
and like doves from the land of Assyria.
Then I will settle them in their homes,
declares the LORD.
12Ephraim surrounds Me with lies,
the house of Israel with deceit;
but Judah still walks with God
and is faithful to the Holy One.d
Footnotes:
1 a Cited in Matthew 2:15
2 b LXX; Hebrew The more they called them, the more they went from them.
3 c That is, the northern kingdom of Israel; also in verses 8, 9, and 12
12 d Or and Judah is unruly against God, the faithful Holy One
Is that poster correct?? No.
If he is not correct (and I believe he is not), then WHY not? (he would ask)
Read Pilgrimshope's post again. He's not saying what you thought he posted.
Pilgrimshope is saying, that Jesus is speaking of something else in Matt24, from that which He was speaking of in Jn2.
[The text itself in Jn2 NOWHERE SAYS Jesus "POINTED" to a temple, as you suggest that He did, when Jesus said there, "Destroy [imperative] THIS temple..." speaking of "the temple of His body"]
You're almost there! The saints are killed in a specific place in the world. You are correct about the 7 years.
And I'm saying Jesus uses physical things to preach spiritual things. 70ad is not a spiritual thing, it's a physical thing.