Post Trib Rapture?
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Wrong again....
It's little wonder you post-tribbers are so negative, hopeless, morbid and morose in your postings.
Perfectly understandable really.....
1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up G726 together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
G726 - harpazō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
It's little wonder you post-tribbers are so negative, hopeless, morbid and morose in your postings.
Perfectly understandable really.....
1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up G726 together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
G726 - harpazō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
@GaryA is not saying the crucifixion was in 34ad... He is saying that the 70th week started at His baptism (which has nothing to do with "[determined upon...] thy [Daniel's] holy city" like the actual conclusion of the 69 Weeks [7+62 total] DOES have to do with!! (Zech9:9/Lk19:41-44, etc)]... so that mid-week was the crucifixion (per GaryA)... and 3 and a half years later/after the Cross was 34ad the end of the 70 Weeks according to GaryA's understanding.
Seems too much twisting to get it to "fit," if you ask me (the links to his old posts seem same, to me--the ones about the Dan9:24-27 time-prophecy that he'd supplied in this thread). No, what we call Palm Sunday/Triumphal Entry was the actual conclusion of the 69 Weeks (7+62 total), after which He was "cut off" (later that very week... His trials and the Cross)
Yes. Agreed!
Seems too much twisting to get it to "fit," if you ask me (the links to his old posts seem same, to me--the ones about the Dan9:24-27 time-prophecy that he'd supplied in this thread). No, what we call Palm Sunday/Triumphal Entry was the actual conclusion of the 69 Weeks (7+62 total), after which He was "cut off" (later that very week... His trials and the Cross)
Yes. Agreed!
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The crucifixion was in 30 A.D. - in the middle of the 70th week.
The baptism of Jesus and beginning of His ministry marks the start of the 70th week.
The gospel going out to the Gentiles - the beginning of Paul's ministry - marks the end of the 70th week.
The only link between Daniel 9:24-27 and the events circa 70 A.D. is the mention of it in the [Daniel] prophecy.
Of course, Jesus also made mention of it in the 'prelude' to the Olivet Discourse.
Correct - the end of the 70 weeks is in no way tied to the events circa 70 A.D.
In 'event' terms, the two are not [directly] connected in any way.
The baptism of Jesus and beginning of His ministry marks the start of the 70th week.
The gospel going out to the Gentiles - the beginning of Paul's ministry - marks the end of the 70th week.
The only link between Daniel 9:24-27 and the events circa 70 A.D. is the mention of it in the [Daniel] prophecy.
Of course, Jesus also made mention of it in the 'prelude' to the Olivet Discourse.
Correct - the end of the 70 weeks is in no way tied to the events circa 70 A.D.
In 'event' terms, the two are not [directly] connected in any way.
Again, and again, and again. Will it sink in? The GT is an event that has never happened and will never happen again. Physical Jerusalem was destroy before. Put an X through 70 ad.
You should know better because Jesus pointed to a temple and said destroy this temple and I will build it in 3 days. Was he talking about what He just pointed too?
Matthew 26:61 KJV
And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
What say ye?[/QUOTE]
what say I ? Your not understanding me
It’s not about what I think or say it’s about accepting what Jesus Christ the lord said
for you to look at this
“but found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, and said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.”
Matthew 26:60-61 KJV
and somehow make that matter to what this says
“And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”
Matthew 24:1-3 KJV
How’s an inability to hear what’s being said in context of what he’s saying
This subject
“his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down”
Has absolutely zero correlation to Jesus saying this ( which is where that actually came from )
“Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body.”
John 2:19-
The Old Testament had a temple made by man
the New Testament the man himself becomes the temple
It’s almost like they didn’t understand what Jesus was talking about like the hypergracers of today not even able to distinguish between a shadow covenant and reality or a man made building and the body of Christ
a two different covenants two different temples and two completely different subject matters in the context of what he’s actually saying in both places
One is about his resurrection the other is about the destruction of Jerusalem and it’s temple which happened you can read in any world history book about the siege of Jerusalem destruction of its temple and city which was followed by the dispersion of the Jews into all nations of the world where they still exist today and two thousand years later Muslim mosque sites where the old temple used to stand upon the temple mound in Jerusalem
muslims control the holy sites there bibles aren’t allowed in that area , and stop the mosque is the blasphemous statement “ God has no son “
arhats what became of Israel’s temple even it’s mound now supports the dome of the rock one of the largest and oldest Muslim mosques on earth
Its desolate as is the rest of this world
You should know better because Jesus pointed to a temple and said destroy this temple and I will build it in 3 days. Was he talking about what He just pointed too?
Matthew 26:61 KJV
And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
What say ye?[/QUOTE]
what say I ? Your not understanding me
It’s not about what I think or say it’s about accepting what Jesus Christ the lord said
for you to look at this
“but found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, and said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.”
Matthew 26:60-61 KJV
and somehow make that matter to what this says
“And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”
Matthew 24:1-3 KJV
How’s an inability to hear what’s being said in context of what he’s saying
This subject
“his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down”
Has absolutely zero correlation to Jesus saying this ( which is where that actually came from )
“Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body.”
John 2:19-
The Old Testament had a temple made by man
the New Testament the man himself becomes the temple
It’s almost like they didn’t understand what Jesus was talking about like the hypergracers of today not even able to distinguish between a shadow covenant and reality or a man made building and the body of Christ
a two different covenants two different temples and two completely different subject matters in the context of what he’s actually saying in both places
One is about his resurrection the other is about the destruction of Jerusalem and it’s temple which happened you can read in any world history book about the siege of Jerusalem destruction of its temple and city which was followed by the dispersion of the Jews into all nations of the world where they still exist today and two thousand years later Muslim mosque sites where the old temple used to stand upon the temple mound in Jerusalem
muslims control the holy sites there bibles aren’t allowed in that area , and stop the mosque is the blasphemous statement “ God has no son “
arhats what became of Israel’s temple even it’s mound now supports the dome of the rock one of the largest and oldest Muslim mosques on earth
Its desolate as is the rest of this world
So you are saying the 70th week starts approx 27AD baptism of Jesus, crucifixion midweek, approx 34AD end of 70th week, and 70AD date is irrelevant as regards your 70 weeks dating scheme?
I thought that you believe that 70AD is the AOD and somehow related to the time of Jacob's trouble????????
It is inconceivable that 34AD (3-1/2 years post cruxifiction) has anything to do with anything....Peter preaching to Gentiles? That's It?
I thought that you believe that 70AD is the AOD and somehow related to the time of Jacob's trouble????????
It is inconceivable that 34AD (3-1/2 years post cruxifiction) has anything to do with anything....Peter preaching to Gentiles? That's It?
Please show us in Scripture where (in connection with Jesus saying this) that He "POINTED to a temple and said" that.
I'm not seeing it.
Please "waste our time" by SHOWING us this in Scripture (it's not there!)
[methinks someone is getting completely distinct passages / contexts conflated! IT HAPPENS!!]
I'm not seeing it.
Please "waste our time" by SHOWING us this in Scripture
(it's not there!)[methinks someone is getting completely distinct passages / contexts conflated! IT HAPPENS!!]
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Please show us in Scripture where (in connection with Jesus saying this) that He "POINTED to a temple and said" that.
I'm not seeing it.
Please "waste our time" by SHOWING us this in Scripture (it's not there!)
[methinks someone is getting completely distinct passages / contexts conflated! IT HAPPENS!!]
I'm not seeing it.
Please "waste our time" by SHOWING us this in Scripture
(it's not there!)[methinks someone is getting completely distinct passages / contexts conflated! IT HAPPENS!!]
Jesus answers the disciple's question. "When shall these things be?" Regarding not one stone upon another..... Jesus answered,
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
I assure you the abomination of desolation is not the Romans of 70ad.
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Will do my best. = )
For starters...
The matter in question involves [considering the following]:
1) "the LAST [G2078] trumpet" (what occurs with this?);
2) the "SEVEN Trumpets" (unfolding "judgments" upon the earth--via 7 "ANGELS" who sound them... and note how the term "MIGHTY" angels is used elsewhere in Scripture, besides 2Th1:7-10);
3) "GREAT" trumpet (Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:12,13,9--note WHO, and IN WHAT MANNER, and TO WHERE, and BY WHOM [these] are gathered, and to what end/purpose)
So, re: "the last [G2078] trump/trumpet"...
The question is, must this mean the LAST EVER??
Or can the "7 [judgment] Trumpets" take place after that one (which 7 Trumpets have nothing to do with "the Church which is His body")?
And can the "GREAT" trumpet (Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:12-13,9 which gathers the elect of Israel to one place upon the earth, namely "to worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM") take place after both of those mentions
(both of those, meaning,
(1) "last [G2078]" which calls the Church His Body--for the "change"/glorification--at which time we are "SNATCHED-UP [G726]"),
and (2) "[set-of] 7" which are judgments unfolding upon the earth within the "in quickness [noun]" time period, aka the commonly-called "the Trib" yrs)
In view of the above, CONSIDER:
...another / different Greek word that is also translated "last":
"Then last of all [G5305--one word in Grk]" he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’
G5305 (husteron/hysteron) as used in Matt21:37 "last of all" (kjv)... used also in:
--Prov5:4 LXX - "Her END [G5305 LXX..." - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/pro/5/4/p0/t_concl_633004
(the next verse reflects same, by saying, "her feet go down to death"... I mean, she ain't doing nothing else after that, that was "THE END" of her, see ['the LAST of her,' as the saying goes])
If this ^ were the word that was used, one might begin to have a more convincing case... but it's not.
So, 1Th4:16 says,
"Because THE LORD HIMSELF
in shout of command
in voice of archangel
and in trumpet of God [see OT in a passage where "the Lord ['ăḏōnāy-H136] God" is said to blow the trumpet... see also "Lord [H136]" used 10x in Daniel 9 (as well as Dan1:2, 1x - "And the Lord [H136] gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his [Neb's--v.1] hand...")... ]
WILL DESCEND"
[the next verse describing our "SNATCH-UP [G726]" TO the MEETING OF THE LORD in the air... Recalling earlier in this epistle, 1:10 saying, "the One delivering US out-from THE WRATH COMING"... IOW, Paul does not merely refer to this event ONCE, in the well-known / oft-quoted ONE VERSE 1Th4:17, but something like 8-10 TIMES in his two Thess epistles!... not to mention his other epistles...]
I have another couple of points regarding this issue (noted at bottom)... but don't want to make this posts as long as any of Paul's epistles, or anything. Haha. Perhaps I can come back and post one of those at a time / one point per post... we shall see...
____________
[note, if I can get to it] the next points regarding:
--Numbers 10:1-5 (2 trumpets blown in certain patterns for certain PURPOSES), Numbers 1 ("24 names" coupled, of the "LEADERS / HEADS"... and concerning also "the SUM OF ALL the congregation..." and "thou and Aaron shall number them [those of certain 'age'] by their ARMIES" etc etc...)
--"the voice the FIRST that I heard like a trumpet" referring BACK to the one John had previously heard speak in Rev1:10-11 (the One identifying Himself as "[I AM] the FIRST and the LAST")
For starters...
The matter in question involves [considering the following]:
1) "the LAST [G2078] trumpet" (what occurs with this?);
2) the "SEVEN Trumpets" (unfolding "judgments" upon the earth--via 7 "ANGELS" who sound them... and note how the term "MIGHTY" angels is used elsewhere in Scripture, besides 2Th1:7-10);
3) "GREAT" trumpet (Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:12,13,9--note WHO, and IN WHAT MANNER, and TO WHERE, and BY WHOM [these] are gathered, and to what end/purpose)
So, re: "the last [G2078] trump/trumpet"...
The question is, must this mean the LAST EVER??
Or can the "7 [judgment] Trumpets" take place after that one (which 7 Trumpets have nothing to do with "the Church which is His body")?
And can the "GREAT" trumpet (Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:12-13,9 which gathers the elect of Israel to one place upon the earth, namely "to worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM") take place after both of those mentions
(both of those, meaning,
(1) "last [G2078]" which calls the Church His Body--for the "change"/glorification--at which time we are "SNATCHED-UP [G726]"),
and (2) "[set-of] 7" which are judgments unfolding upon the earth within the "in quickness [noun]" time period, aka the commonly-called "the Trib" yrs)
In view of the above, CONSIDER:
...another / different Greek word that is also translated "last":
"Then last of all [G5305--one word in Grk]" he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’
G5305 (husteron/hysteron) as used in Matt21:37 "last of all" (kjv)... used also in:
--Prov5:4 LXX - "Her END [G5305 LXX..." - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/pro/5/4/p0/t_concl_633004
(the next verse reflects same, by saying, "her feet go down to death"... I mean, she ain't doing nothing else after that, that was "THE END" of her, see ['the LAST of her,' as the saying goes])
If this ^ were the word that was used, one might begin to have a more convincing case... but it's not.
So, 1Th4:16 says,
"Because THE LORD HIMSELF
in shout of command
in voice of archangel
and in trumpet of God [see OT in a passage where "the Lord ['ăḏōnāy-H136] God" is said to blow the trumpet... see also "Lord [H136]" used 10x in Daniel 9 (as well as Dan1:2, 1x - "And the Lord [H136] gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his [Neb's--v.1] hand...")... ]
WILL DESCEND"
[the next verse describing our "SNATCH-UP [G726]" TO the MEETING OF THE LORD in the air... Recalling earlier in this epistle, 1:10 saying, "the One delivering US out-from THE WRATH COMING"... IOW, Paul does not merely refer to this event ONCE, in the well-known / oft-quoted ONE VERSE 1Th4:17, but something like 8-10 TIMES in his two Thess epistles!... not to mention his other epistles...]
I have another couple of points regarding this issue (noted at bottom)... but don't want to make this posts as long as any of Paul's epistles, or anything. Haha. Perhaps I can come back and post one of those at a time / one point per post... we shall see...
____________
[note, if I can get to it] the next points regarding:
--Numbers 10:1-5 (2 trumpets blown in certain patterns for certain PURPOSES), Numbers 1 ("24 names" coupled, of the "LEADERS / HEADS"... and concerning also "the SUM OF ALL the congregation..." and "thou and Aaron shall number them [those of certain 'age'] by their ARMIES" etc etc...)
--"the voice the FIRST that I heard like a trumpet" referring BACK to the one John had previously heard speak in Rev1:10-11 (the One identifying Himself as "[I AM] the FIRST and the LAST")
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