Post Trib Rapture?
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I do not read anywhere that it says (in this context, or other) that "Jesus POINTED TO a temple and said":
John 2 -
12After this, He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples, and they stayed there not many days.
13And the Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14And He found in the temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers sitting. 15And having made a whip of cords, He drove out all from the temple, both sheep and oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overthrew the tables. 16And to those selling doves He said, “Take these things from here! Do not make My Father’s house a house of trade.”
17His disciples remembered that it is written: “The zeal of Your house will consume Me.”b
18So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us that You do these things?”
19Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20Therefore the Jews said, “This temple was built in forty and six years, and You will raise it up in three days?”
21But He was speaking concerning the temple of His body. 22Therefore when He was raised up out from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
John 2 -
12After this, He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples, and they stayed there not many days.
13And the Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14And He found in the temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers sitting. 15And having made a whip of cords, He drove out all from the temple, both sheep and oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overthrew the tables. 16And to those selling doves He said, “Take these things from here! Do not make My Father’s house a house of trade.”
17His disciples remembered that it is written: “The zeal of Your house will consume Me.”b
18So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us that You do these things?”
19Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20Therefore the Jews said, “This temple was built in forty and six years, and You will raise it up in three days?”
21But He was speaking concerning the temple of His body. 22Therefore when He was raised up out from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
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Gary........go ahead and add 70 weeks of years to 445 BC (Nehemiah 2 decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus) and what do you get?
Hint: it ain't 70 A.D.
Yes the preterists try move the 445BC goalposts. Despite all of the scholars saying no bueno.
Preterism is a exigetical disaster no matter which way you slice it.
Hint: it ain't 70 A.D.
Yes the preterists try move the 445BC goalposts. Despite all of the scholars saying no bueno.
Preterism is a exigetical disaster no matter which way you slice it.
The "last trump" is also called "the trump of God" and even though it is called that it is probably blown by the archangel who also gives a shout. So what is the purpose of this trumpet being blown if not to summon all the saints home to be with Christ? It is prefigured in the sliver trumpets which summoned Israel to the tabernacle when the Israelites were in the wilderness.
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. (Num 10:1-3)
Keeping in mind that the tabernacle in the wilderness was a replica of the temple in Heaven, it is more than reasonable to believe that the last trump will bring all the saints to the New Jerusalem, which also houses the temple in Heaven, since "the blood of sprinkling" is also there.
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. (Num 10:1-3)
Keeping in mind that the tabernacle in the wilderness was a replica of the temple in Heaven, it is more than reasonable to believe that the last trump will bring all the saints to the New Jerusalem, which also houses the temple in Heaven, since "the blood of sprinkling" is also there.
It's okay - we can disagree and still be Christian brothers... 
Depending which pre-tribber you ask, you may not even be considered a Christian. Pre-trib rapture theory is often closely associated with certain denominations. The dispensational premillennialists are their own breed of Protestant, imho.
Once you understand what these phrases mean in the context of the passage - many things "become crystal clear" and "make perfect sense"...
~ You know exactly (relative to events in scripture) when the real actual AOD took place.
~ You know exactly (relative to events in scripture) when the 'Great Tribulation' begins.
~ You know exactly (relative to events in scripture) when the 'Great Tribulation' ends.
~ You understand why people make such erroneous interpretations of the passage.
~ You know exactly (relative to events in scripture) when the real actual AOD took place.
~ You know exactly (relative to events in scripture) when the 'Great Tribulation' begins.
~ You know exactly (relative to events in scripture) when the 'Great Tribulation' ends.
~ You understand why people make such erroneous interpretations of the passage.
R
I know you agree with TDW, but He is very wrong in most of his post.
His post are very hard to read. He seems to try to impress people with what he believes is a great understanding that I see as giving his own interpretation of Scripture to prove a belief that is wrong.
I have asked several times about the first resurrection as described in Rev, 20 and his only response was that "first" does not mean none before or number one.
Others have stated this bull that it comes in several stages over a period of years.
When I have asked about Paul's statement about the gathering of the Saints happens at the last trump, the answer is that last does not really mean as in none will sound after.
I fully understand you and others not accepting what is clearly stated in Scripture.
It completely destroys the foundation that your false pre-tribulation "rapture of the church" is built on.
I will believe the simple words of God recorded in the Scripture.
I will not change the meaning of words nor twist Scripture to justify what I believe as you and others do.
His post are very hard to read. He seems to try to impress people with what he believes is a great understanding that I see as giving his own interpretation of Scripture to prove a belief that is wrong.
I have asked several times about the first resurrection as described in Rev, 20 and his only response was that "first" does not mean none before or number one.
Others have stated this bull that it comes in several stages over a period of years.
When I have asked about Paul's statement about the gathering of the Saints happens at the last trump, the answer is that last does not really mean as in none will sound after.
I fully understand you and others not accepting what is clearly stated in Scripture.
It completely destroys the foundation that your false pre-tribulation "rapture of the church" is built on.
I will believe the simple words of God recorded in the Scripture.
I will not change the meaning of words nor twist Scripture to justify what I believe as you and others do.
What? We are talking about 70AD here? Right?
You say Daniel's 70 weeks are uninterrupted. And the end of the 70th week is the tribulation (upon the Jews at least), the destruction of the Temple etc etc ....right?
Why are you adding the "34AD" crucifixion (your notion of the 69th week?) in the mix? Doesn't make sense.
(BTW, the so-called Triumphal Entry (10th Nisan) is the correct event marking the end of the 69th week.)
The truth is, you cannot tie the end of Daniels 70 weeks to 70AD no way no how.
You say Daniel's 70 weeks are uninterrupted. And the end of the 70th week is the tribulation (upon the Jews at least), the destruction of the Temple etc etc ....right?
Why are you adding the "34AD" crucifixion (your notion of the 69th week?) in the mix? Doesn't make sense.
(BTW, the so-called Triumphal Entry (10th Nisan) is the correct event marking the end of the 69th week.)
The truth is, you cannot tie the end of Daniels 70 weeks to 70AD no way no how.
You have opinions, TDW has exquisite exegesis and correctly applied/interpreted Greek grammar that you find "very hard to read".
Who are we going to believe?
At any rate, as far as the Church is concerned, this IS the last Trumpet. The end of the Church Age. The term "twinkling of an eye" reinforces this idea. We henceforth follow Christ whithersoever He goes. No more trumpet calls to assembly required.....for the CHURCH.
As for trumpets......here you go. You let us know which trumpet YOU BELIVE Paul is talking about. Output some effort for a change and edify us.
KJV Search Results for "trumpets" (blueletterbible.org)
KJV Search Results for "trumpet" (blueletterbible.org)
Who are we going to believe?
At any rate, as far as the Church is concerned, this IS the last Trumpet. The end of the Church Age. The term "twinkling of an eye" reinforces this idea. We henceforth follow Christ whithersoever He goes. No more trumpet calls to assembly required.....for the CHURCH.
As for trumpets......here you go. You let us know which trumpet YOU BELIVE Paul is talking about. Output some effort for a change and edify us.
KJV Search Results for "trumpets" (blueletterbible.org)
KJV Search Results for "trumpet" (blueletterbible.org)
Same trumpet as 1 Cor 15:52.....
1Th 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Some say this is the Tekiah Gedolah. Others say it is the Exodus 19:16 trumpet equivalent for the Church (there are some parallels).
Frankly, I am not convinced of anything specifically even after all these years of studying the matter. I am not alone in this.
What we DO KNOW is what this "last trump" IS NOT. It is not the judgement trumpets of Revelation. It is not the Isaiah 27:13 trumpet call to gather Israel.
1Th 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Some say this is the Tekiah Gedolah. Others say it is the Exodus 19:16 trumpet equivalent for the Church (there are some parallels).
Frankly, I am not convinced of anything specifically even after all these years of studying the matter. I am not alone in this.
What we DO KNOW is what this "last trump" IS NOT. It is not the judgement trumpets of Revelation. It is not the Isaiah 27:13 trumpet call to gather Israel.
R
These trumpets mentioned in the verses are trumpets of men.
The trump Paul speaks of are trumps of God.
Very different.
As for as those who are known for their great exegesis and interpretation of Scripture, does not mean they are correct when it is done to prove their belief and not understand what Scripture clearly states.
He may impress you with his many, many words, but not me.
I have seen, heard, and read after many men who were "learned" in the Scripture who do the same. Twist and interpret to prove what the believe instead of learning the truth.
Enough of this.
Waste of time talking to those who are blind to the truth.
The trump Paul speaks of are trumps of God.
Very different.
As for as those who are known for their great exegesis and interpretation of Scripture, does not mean they are correct when it is done to prove their belief and not understand what Scripture clearly states.
He may impress you with his many, many words, but not me.
I have seen, heard, and read after many men who were "learned" in the Scripture who do the same. Twist and interpret to prove what the believe instead of learning the truth.
Enough of this.
Waste of time talking to those who are blind to the truth.
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