Poll of polls on the longest running debate:

[oyster67]

One does not repent of individual sins for salvation

A haughty and impenitent heart will not enter the Kingdom.

"Ye must be born again" is based upon a singular act of faith in Christ Jesus for eternal life upon which God gives the gift of eternal life.

Correct. And God has given us clear direction on how to draw near and stay near to Him. We must never despise that imparted gift or take it for granted. These things are cut and dried.
Hebrews 6:4,5,6
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,”
“And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,”
“If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

You go to Jesus on His terms

Correct.

One can stop being faithful but God is also able to chastise and deal with that person.

Correct. And some will harden their hearts, even after being warned. They will be totally without excuse.

Romans 8:29
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined lto be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be mthe firstborn among many brothers.

Yes. He foreknew that they would not turn apostate.

So you not think that God was not smart enough to create a fool proof plan of salvation, eternally secure that could triumph against the flesh, Satan and the world?

The plan is that the Just shall live by faith.

Once saved, always saved. Jesus has not and will not lose a single one that the Father has trusted in his care. I read that somewhere in the bible.

John 17:12
“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

Those that are born-again are led to repentance

Yes. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force him to drink.

God's grace was sufficient for him.

...when it is accepted and received.

It's sufficient for me too and those others that are saved by the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross for sins, theirs and mine.

Amen and Amen!

Any works performed, by the grace of God are a manifestation of one's standing before the Lord. Says in James that faith without works is a dead faith. even though the works themselves do not save. We are called to serve the Lord for that is our purpose.

Amen brother.

Now I would remind you brothers, of the Gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:1–2)

Amen. Also note that this is clearly addressed to those who have previously received salvation.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

No one "forfeits" salvation. If anyone was a candidate for forfeiting his salvation it was the apostle Peter on the night that Christ was betrayed, and he denied Christ three times. And even later when he went fishing after the resurrection instead of waiting for Christ. And then much later when Paul had to rebuke him for failing to be consistent. Then we have doubting Thomas who refused to believe that Christ had risen from the dead even though his eye-witness brethren told him in no uncertain terms. And even though Jesus had told him many times that He would rise from the dead.

SALVATION = THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE. And no one earns or merits that gift. It is purely a gift of the grace of God and based entirely on the perfect finished work of Christ.

SALVATION = JUSTIFICATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. And justification is purely by the grace of God and based entirely on the perfect finished work of Christ.

when you stop Believing and begin Blaming God for your problems and outcomes, you have Forefeited whether you agree or not!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

first and foremost, God will NEVER go against a persons will. God wants you to be Saved and has provided Salvation for you. but if you desire to walk away, to stop Believing in Him, choose Satan over Him, God will HONOR YOUR WILL!

 

[gb9]

first and foremost, God will NEVER go against a persons will. God wants you to be Saved and has provided Salvation for you. but if you desire to walk away, to stop Believing in Him, choose Satan over Him, God will HONOR YOUR WILL!

i agree with this.

freely i choose to accept Jesus as Lord.

and one day ( though i have 0 plans to do so) i could freely walk away from Him.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That faith must endure to the end of your life. If your faith (belief) in Jesus fails then you have failed to receive salvation.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

This is in effect earning your salvation.

Paul says in romans the moment you believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. And confess with your mouth.

You will be saved.

It does not say you have to keep enduring.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Any Christian is able to fall away from that faith in Jesus. You may observe this event, failing faith, happening around the world at present.

Christians that are strongly committed to Jesus Christ, are a very small percentage of the Christian world. Christians that devote themselves to the scripture, to prayer, to fellowship. Are highly unlikely to undergo a faith crises.

No one denies that the Holy Spirit is very active in the Christian life.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of churches are in decline.

You need to address this reality.

To say that they all never believed in Jesus is utter fantasy.

People fall away from faith in other people because those people let them down.

Do you really believe God will let people down so much that they no longer believe in heaven or the cross?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Do something that gives the DA new evidence enough to bring you back for a new trial. Read the law and see. There have been more than one case where a person was pronounced not guilty but then confessed later and was prosecuted based on their confession.

The problem with this senerio is the accused admitted his guilt before the judge declaired him innocent.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

After that single act of faith. Does that mean that verses such as the one below become obsolete?

Now I would remind you brothers, of the Gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:1–2)

What does Paul mean by saying ' if you hold fast to the word I preached to you'?

It means that your faith was true saving faith. It means that your faith was not in something else all along. (Say like in the law) and since that is what your true faith was in (the law) you returned to the law.

One who trusts complete in christ would never walk away.. because that is what his real faith was in.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The new covenant needs the two parties to keep their part of the covenant.. The Lord provides salvation and we keep Faith in Him.. We do not rob Jesus of any glory.. Believing Jesus and trusting Jesus is a very light yoke.. But it is something not nothing..

Salvation is not a two party covenant. Like the covenant made to Abraham,. it is an I WILL covenant.

God said, I will

He did not say, if you do this (works) I will. If you stop. I will stop.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

A haughty and impenitent heart will not enter the Kingdom.



Correct. And God has given us clear direction on how to draw near and stay near to Him. We must never despise that imparted gift or take it for granted. These things are cut and dried.
Hebrews 6:4,5,6
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,”
“And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,”
“If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”


Correct.


Correct. And some will harden their hearts, even after being warned. They will be totally without excuse.


Yes. He foreknew that they would not turn apostate.


The plan is that the Just shall live by faith.


John 17:12
“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”


Yes. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force him to drink.


...when it is accepted and received.


Amen and Amen!


Amen brother.


Amen. Also note that this is clearly addressed to those who have previously received salvation.

Who can withstand the chastening of the Lord?

I tried it for 5 years. God overcame MY sinful heart.

But even if I had commited suicide (which is what I had wanted to do hitting rock bottom) God still would have saved me,

He can not deny himself. It was not my promise to God. It is his promise to his children.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

first and foremost, God will NEVER go against a persons will. God wants you to be Saved and has provided Salvation for you. but if you desire to walk away, to stop Believing in Him, choose Satan over Him, God will HONOR YOUR WILL!

A person who walks away is against christ. He rejects him, he is an unbeliever, he is antichrist.

John said they were never of us, if they were, they never would have left.

God does not make mistakes

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

i agree with this.

freely i choose to accept Jesus as Lord.

and one day ( though i have 0 plans to do so) i could freely walk away from Him.

Yes you could/ Like the prophet did. But what did he learn. No matter where I go. There you are lord. Who can hide from you?

God is faithful. You can not snatch yourself out of his hands. As any loving father, he would not let you.

 

[Snacks]

Jesus references the extraordinary joy that takes place when lost sheep are found but never makes reference to lost sheep not being found.

 

[Scarlett7297]

The first option has 'sealed by the Holy Spirit '. Does that mean , those of us who didn't have any experience like the day of Pentecost written in the Bible, we don't have the Holy Spirit?...and thus aren't sealed? Isn't having faith enough? Even without said experiences ? Do i have to be worried that I never spoke in tongues and never had received the Holy Spirit in the way documented in the Bible and also seen people receiving in my Church with them speaking in tongues , even today I saw when people were called to receive the Holy Spirit and they came forward. There was loud shouting and tongues.

 

[gb9]

Yes you could/ Like the prophet did. But what did he learn. No matter where I go. There you are lord. Who can hide from you?

God is faithful. You can not snatch yourself out of his hands. As any loving father, he would not let you.

but when you choose to follow Christ, you do not lose your free will.

now, i am not talking about a believer who is struggling with sin, i am talking about saying " Jesus, i do not believe in you anymore, i don't think God is even real".

that is walking away from God.

 

[SomeDisciple]

This is in effect earning your salvation.

That's kinda ridiculous. Let's say someone just handed you a million dollars: and then you went around bragging that you EARNED IT yourself , because you accepted it; how would people respond to that? Try it. Surely someone has given you a gift in this life- go to that person that gave you the gift, and tell them YOU EARNED IT because you had the sense not to throw it in the garbage. See how they look at you after that.

John said they were never of us, if they were, they never would have left.

Scripture ripped out of context.

Do you really believe God will let people down so much that they no longer believe in heaven or the cross?

It's not that God lets people down: people let themselves down with wrong expectations.
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God. But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.
We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first.
People departing from God doesn't mean that God made a mistake, or make him wrong; it just means the people departing from him are wrong.

God is faithful. You can not snatch yourself out of his hands.

It's not a matter of "snatching yourself"- you don't have to overpower him to leave. Nobody is going to be in heaven because they were forced to be there.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

but when you choose to follow Christ, you do not lose your free will.

now, i am not talking about a believer who is struggling with sin, i am talking about saying " Jesus, i do not believe in you anymore, i don't think God is even real".

that is walking away from God.

I think the apostle John 3 answers that question.

They were never of us

While I agree. We still have free will. No one who truly believes in God will ever stop believing completely in him, unless they never truly believed to begin with.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That's kinda ridiculous. Let's say someone just handed you a million dollars: and then you went around bragging that you EARNED IT yourself , because you accepted it; how would people respond to that? Try it. Surely someone has given you a gift in this life- go to that person that gave you the gift, and tell them YOU EARNED IT because you had the sense not to throw it in the garbage. See how they look at you after that.

This is nonsensical For a few reasons.

Your trying to compair a finite amount (a million dollars) with an infinite amount (eternal life)

while your correct. I can not say I earned it when I got it. It was given to me. Your in error in your presumption that I can spend it all. Eternity is forever. I can not spend eternity so That there is nothing left. It is forever.

Your second issue is that a million dollars is something you spend to purchase things. Eternal life or salvation can not be spent to purchase things. it is a state. It is a state of being made alive, and this life being forever. As jesus said, they will never die. They will live forever. (John 3 and John 6 plus others)

a million dollars is not meant so last forever. Again it is finite.

Scripture ripped out of context.

ripped out of context how/ Don;t just say it is ripped out of context without giving proof as to how and why. I will be waiting

It's not that God lets people down: people let themselves down with wrong expectations.
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God. But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.
We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first.
People departing from God doesn't mean that God made a mistake, or make him wrong; it just means the people departing from him are wrong.

God said they will never die. He said they would live forever. He gave them the spirit as a seal until ressurection day (the day of redemption) He said he will personally raise them from the dead.

So for him to have to remind those promises he made the moment they would say. It would be him making a mistake. God is omniscient, he knows everything from your first day until your last day. God does not give eternal lifts to people he knows do not have true faith as proven by the fact they walk away.. as John said, to reveal they were never of us.

It's not a matter of "snatching yourself"- you don't have to overpower him to leave. Nobody is going to be in heaven because they were forced to be there.

God doers not force his children to go to heaven, he prevents them from casting themselves over the cliff (hell)

Remove yourself from the equation my friend. Salvation is not about you. It is not about you letting God down. you have already done that and will continue to do that. Because no one will be sinless

It is about the cross. And the promise God made based on that cross.

 

[Dirtman]

The problem with this senerio is the accused admitted his guilt before the judge declaired him innocent.

No sir. While you can nit be brought back based on the same evidence you can be brought back infront of the Judge based on new evidence a confession post trial even years later is new evidence and you can be prosecuted.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No sir. While you can nit be brought back based on the same evidence you can be brought back infront of the Judge based on new evidence a confession post trial even years later is new evidence and you can be prosecuted.

lol.

I would have to deny I was a sinner for that to be true. A person who denies he is a sinner will never be saved, they have not yet repented.