Please help me to respond to some of my non-trinitarian friends

[Cameron143]

From my non-trinitarian friend:
Matt 11: 27 All things are delivered unto me by my Father, and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, except the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.
God is not a God of confusion. You have a choice. You can believe a clear and logical understanding of what is going on as revealed by the Son so that everything fits perfectly or you can believe some illogical understanding of a man-made concept which was established in the Council of Nicea in 325AD and forced on Christians to teach and believe by the Roman emperor Constantine (who himself was a sun-worshiper).
Matt 7: 13-14 Enter in at the narrow gates; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in that way; Because narrow is the gate, and hard is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I have faith in what Jesus reveals to me from the Bible and not from man-made concepts which don't make sense.

Your friend believes that people who believe in the trinity are forced to do so? Does your friend alone receive revelation from Jesus or is this available to all Christians? Has your friend ever held a belief at one point and later had fuller or different revelation given?

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

As a person? Are we not created in His image?

Is God a man?

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

I Timothy 2:5

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

So the body of Christ was deity?

 

[Nicolas]

From my non-trinitarian friend:
Matt 11: 27 All things are delivered unto me by my Father, and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, except the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.
God is not a God of confusion. You have a choice. You can believe a clear and logical understanding of what is going on as revealed by the Son so that everything fits perfectly or you can believe some illogical understanding of a man-made concept which was established in the Council of Nicea in 325AD and forced on Christians to teach and believe by the Roman emperor Constantine (who himself was a sun-worshiper).
Matt 7: 13-14 Enter in at the narrow gates; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in that way; Because narrow is the gate, and hard is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I have faith in what Jesus reveals to me from the Bible and not from man-made concepts which don't make sense.

To be honest, I don't care what Constantine or the Council of Nicaea said. They spent years, if not centuries, trying to explain the essence of God and the Trinity. I believe what it says and it is clear in the Bible and that is all. There are plenty of verses that clearly emphasize that Jesus and God are one. And they have posted them all here. I'm going to put the latest thing I found and I hope it can help you. If not, you will have to continue praying for your friend so that God will open his eyes and understanding.

How is Jesus the Alpha and the Omega? (compellingtruth.org)

 

[Cameron143]

So the body of Christ was deity?

We have become partakers of the divine nature...2 Peter 1:4.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

We have become partakers of the divine nature...2 Peter 1:4.

We have become partakers of the divine nature...2 Peter 1:4.

So the body of Christ was deity?

 

[Cameron143]

So the body of Christ was deity?

His physical body?

 

[Nicolas]

So the body of Christ was deity?

I don't think so, his body was completely human and mortal, he had the same physiological needs that we humans have. The only thing that differentiated him was that he was sinless and it had to be that way because he was the sacrificial lamb for the atonement of sins. After he was resurrected and during the transfiguration that is narrated in Matthew 17:1-8, it is the aspect of the glorified body or a deity as you say. Paul also speaks of the corruptible body and incorruptible or glorified body.

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Greetings brothers and sisters. I have some Christian friends that are not trinitarians. What is the Trinity?
one God in three persons (one being or essence with 3 personalities)
co-eternal (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have always existed)
co-essential (they share the same essence)
co-equal (the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God)
eternal generation (the begotten Son has always existed)
dual natures of Christ in one person (divine and human)
in their union each nature preserves its distinct attributes (Jesus is all human and all God)
two wills in Christ- divine and human- never conflict
One of my non-trinitarian friends says that Jesus was a Jew who believed the same about God as other Jews. First century Jews did not believe in the Trinity. Their Scriptures proclaimed radical monotheism. The reason why the Jews do not believe in the Trinity, then or now, is because of the Jewish Scriptures that proclaim monotheism. Deut 4: 35, 39 To you it was shown so that you would acknowledge that the Lord is God; there is no other besides him. So acknowledge today and take to heart that the Lord is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other. In Mark 12: 28-34 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all commandments is: Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord; And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth; for there is one God, and there is no other but he. And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. Jesus confessed the Shema, the core creed of Judaism, without altering it at all. How would the Jewish scribe have heard this? As a Trinitarian creed? If the Trinity was true, Jesus would have corrected or altered the Shema. Instead, he praises the scribe.
Please help me to respond to him.

Are you doubting at all that God is Triune? If not, what convinced you? i would say the Gospel of John for me. If he is open to the New Testament, as he appears to be, show him its beginning and then the seven I AM statements of Jesus; they identify him with the I AM THAT I AM of Moses' burning bush (Exodus 3 and 4) as well as one of them with David's divine Shepherd (Psalm 23), for example. Run through them with him, and show him how Jesus claimed to be God. Then, show him in chapters 14, 15, and 16 how Jesus presents the Holy Spirit as a Person of God. Jesus also claims that he is one with the Father. The Trinity is a mystery which we cannot solve with our human minds.

If those passages don't convince him, it's not God's time for him yet. Just continue to be a good friend by witnessing to him about what he is doing in your life and occasionally inviting him to go to your church. And pray always for him.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

My non-trinitarian friend says that it is illogical for something that is in between two different points to also be one of those endpoints. His inbetweeness would no longer exist. The trinity says that Jesus is fully God and fully man. If Jesus was fully God Almighty, there would be no reason for him to pray to himself, or experience fear, or obey commands, or have a different will from the Father, or not know everything. It is illogical to think that a father fathers himself and calls himself his son.

What is the religious background of your friend? Is he perhaps a Muslim or apostolic oneness Pentecostal?

 

[Genez]

There's not a single verse that describes God Almighty as a person.

Try these.... eye glasses

Which part is symbolic? This is all historical narrative. Verse 11, "but He did lay His hand upon them" has what reason to exist if it only symbolic?

They saw something alright. But it was not God, as God is.
It was God allowing them to see what represents Him to their limited way of thinking.

Are you thinking?
Tell me this .. How can anyone see omnipresence???

Omnipresence is not in front of you. Its everywhere.

How can you see that???

Impossible.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

There's not a single verse that describes God Almighty as a person.

Hebrews 1:3

1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

This book distinguishes Jesus from the Father as distinct "persons" as we see here. It uses that third person possessive pronoun to say that Jesus is the express image of the Father's person. There's the Son's person and there's the Father's person. Throughout the Old and NT we see the distinct persons of the Father described, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Genez]

Is God a man?

Man's soul is created in God's image.

Since no one can see God (John 1:18) ? God must use a means to make Himself knowable to us.

God's genius utilizes the humanity of Christ to manifest all we can possibly know about God,
by manifesting God in a way we have the capacity to relate to and understand as humans.

That is why a Greek word that means "exegesis" is used in John 1:18.
Its to tell us that Jesus is God's means to exegete God for man's understanding.

The Amplified Bible even translated John 1:18 with that factor of exegesis in mind.

Here is a typical translation.
It is lacking in the depth needed to convey exegesis.

New International Version

No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God ​

and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.​

And here is what the Amplified Bible provides to give us closer understanding to what is intended in the Greek.

No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten ​

God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him ​

[He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him ​

and He has made Him known]. John 1:18 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition​

​

That is why Jesus made it known to his disciples....

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? ​

Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? ​

John 14:9


Since God when unfiltered and interpreted would be incomprehensible to man?
God has His Son (humanity and God in union) to exegete what he knows, and we can not understand.
Unless it is demonstrated and explained to us in a manner that we as humans are being able to grasp.

In other words? If Jesus is not God? He is all the God we can know! That is why He is the Word. For we use words to comprehend
reality. God simply knows all things. God does not really need to speak within the Trinity. The Trinity is always knowing all things without need for explanation.

 

[SomeDisciple]

The Holy Spirit, which dwells in all believers, would never lead one to come to such an erroneous conclusion.

So why did Jesus say that it was his father in heaven who revealed to Peter who Jesus really was?

"the father isn't the holy spirit" right? So, why is it the "holy spirit" that "wouldn't lead one to come to such an erroneous conclusion".

Trinitarians are the ones who reveal the trinity... with that stupid tetrahedron diagram- given to ME by MAN and not by God. Not from heaven; but from the philosophy of man. Requires no revelation from God at all; so easy a caveman can do it.

But you go ahead and think of me as an unbeliever; because I believe what the bible says in it's own words instead of your little diagram.

 

[tourist]

Is God a man?

Jesus was both human and divine.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

My non-trinitarian friend says that it is illogical for something that is in between two different points to also be one of those endpoints. His inbetweeness would no longer exist. The trinity says that Jesus is fully God and fully man. If Jesus was fully God Almighty, there would be no reason for him to pray to himself, or experience fear, or obey commands, or have a different will from the Father, or not know everything. It is illogical to think that a father fathers himself and calls himself his son.

The trinity states that inside the fully man of Jesus is the second person of the Godhead, ALONE, the Word of God.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

Jesus was both human and divine.

Is God a man?

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

His physical body?

Yes. His flesh.

 

[Genez]

The Holy Spirit, which dwells in all believers, would never lead one to come to such an erroneous conclusion. .

The erroneous conclusion is not to mean they do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
It means they are failing to be filled with the Spirit.

For we are never commanded to be indwelt by the Spirit. That God does in regeneration.

But, we are commanded to be filled.

​

"Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. ​

Instead, be filled with the Spirit". Eph 5:18​

That command was given to believers. To those who already had the indwelling Spirit.

Being filled is when the Holy Spirit actively affects your mind, and is controlling your sin nature.
To be in that state, one must always be ready, if need be, to quickly implement 1 John 1:9.

Grace and peace ..........

 

[Genez]

Is God a man?

Can you be God, to know God?