Pentecostals and others claiming "second experiences"

[kaylagrl]

No, I didn't. I got my opinions from interacting with Pentecostals/charismatics who are claiming their spiritual superiority due to being "spirit-filled", and treating non-Pentecostals/charismatics as inferior believers. All you have to do is read the above comments to see that some hold

By the way, I find it comical that you guys are denying this is a factor within Pentecostal/charismatic circles seeing as your fellow Pentecostals/charismatics are expressing this view in the same thread. Such as the guy who said that we can't "pray in the spirit" so we are inferior.

"SOME" may hold this view,the majority do not.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

@UnitedWithChrist
In the end no one cares what you blog on CC
In the real world hundreds of thousands of people from every continent are being converted by the preaching of the full gospel
of salvation -
repentance from dead works and their dead religions
water baptism by full immersion confessing their faith in Christ Jesus as their Lord and Redeemer
(for the forgiveness of their sins)
baptism in the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of praying in tongues
transformed lives
miracles, healings, blessings, joy and peace

Your unbelief in Pentecost is completely irrelevant to the wonderful works being done by God to increase his Church,
the Spirit-filled Church, in these very last of days.

Another example of the validity of my claim that many Pentecostals/Charismatics view other Christians as being inferior, and in fact, requiring tongues as evidence of salvation.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

"SOME" may hold this view,the majority do not.

I don't know how to weigh how many do and don't hold those beliefs.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The regeneration happened in Dec '72. Call it whatever you want what happened in Mar '74 (15 months later). It definitely was a baptism in the Spirit leaving lasting memories 45 years later.

I can't parse out another individuals' salvation, but I think many who believe they are Christians are really false believers, and they later become saved and regenerated.

 

[kaylagrl]

I'm not an accountant, so I'll rephrase...
Another reason I don't stick with most charismatics teachers is that they do sloppy exegesis when handling God's Word.
I would also add that there is an emphasis on the gifts of the Spirit rather than the message of the Cross.

1 Corinthians 2:2 (KJV) For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

And before you go technical on me, I stated 'emphasis'.

We disagree that tongues have ceased. How does that mean we do "sloppy exegesis"? We have one point we disagree on. And no, we don't put emphasis more on the Spirit than the cross. Without the cross the Holy Spirit would not have come. But the Holy Spirit does have his work too. To empower saints. Simple as that.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I would say that sometimes youtube has it right and others times it does not. With so many people speaking about their views on bible related topics, some more or less understanding of Scripture than others, it is important to be discerning.

ha

well the problem is not youtube per se

the problems are the people who post them

some are legit and others are just click bait or sensational garbage

and then we have all the entertaining puppy and kitten videos...for people like me

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

you should read AUTHENTIC FIRE by Michael Brown, PhD

it would help your understanding of not only Acts, but the work of the Holy Spirit throughout the NT

at this moment, you have simply followed the incorrect teaching of cessationists

you have posted about what you consider an attitude of superiority coming from those who speak in tongues or speak of the infilling of the Holy Spirit, while exhibiting a similar attitude at the other end of the spectrum

even the title of your op is insulting but it also reveals a dire lack of knowledge of the subject matter you choose to post about

well, you will no more make an indent here than the others who have done the same as you

I have listened to Michael Brown. He provides approval and support for blatantly false teachers like Bill Johnson of Bethel Church.

Bill Johnson is one of the worst charismatics in the USA. His group tries to manufacture "miracles' by pouring gold dust into the ventilation system, and dropping feathers from the ceiling, claiming they are from a divine origin. Bethelites have also failed to render medical care to individuals they came into contact with, particularly an asthmatic who ended up suffering brain damage because they didn't call an ambulance to aid him until much later...instead choosing to pray over him and demand that God heal him.

I have some respect for Dr. Brown on some topics, but not on charismatic and Pentecostal teachings.

 

[kaylagrl]

I don't know how to weigh how many do and don't hold those beliefs.

I do!! You are generalizing. The majority don't believe this way. Just because you know some people doesn't mean you paint every Pentecostal the same way. I've never come on here and started a thread that said "You know what the problem is with Baptists? All they want to do is have pot lucks. They don't read the Bible correctly and therefore they must all have a demon". Which has been said of Pentecostals here. So why do people start a thread to bash another brother/sister in the Lord? I'm frankly tired of it. BTW there are people in every denomination that speak in tongues. Every denomination


* by said here, I mean in the forums

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I can't parse out another individuals' salvation, but I think many who believe they are Christians are really false believers, and they later become saved and regenerated.

you cannot back that up with scriputure...are you going for a three tier system now?

there is so much hearsay and exaggeration and downright incorrect information in your attempts at wiping out the gifts and of course especially 'tongues'

you were wrong about GotQuestions

you were wrong about Calvary Chapel

you just move one and do not acknowledge those facts

maybe facts are not important to you, but that would mean you have little regard for the truth

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I have listened to Michael Brown. He provides approval and support for blatantly false teachers like Bill Johnson of Bethel Church.

Bill Johnson is one of the worst charismatics in the USA. His group tries to manufacture "miracles' by pouring gold dust into the ventilation system, and dropping feathers from the ceiling, claiming they are from a divine origin. Bethelites have also failed to render medical care to individuals they came into contact with, particularly an asthmatic who ended up suffering brain damage because they didn't call an ambulance to aid him until much later...instead choosing to pray over him and demand that God heal him.

I have some respect for Dr. Brown on some topics, but not on charismatic and Pentecostal teachings.

well here is another lie

keep em coming right?
'
Brown does not give a thumbs up to Johnson...in fact, I just read Brown's remarks the other day regarding Bethel

you are posting outright lies at this point

what Brown does not do, unlike you, is try to destroy people

I have 0 respect for you at this point and I doubt others, reading your exaggerations and outright lies, are having much either

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

you cannot back that up with scriputure...are you going for a three tier system now?

there is so much hearsay and exaggeration and downright incorrect information in your attempts at wiping out the gifts and of course especially 'tongues'

you were wrong about GotQuestions

you were wrong about Calvary Chapel

you just move one and do not acknowledge those facts

maybe facts are not important to you, but that would mean you have little regard for the truth

I see you are claiming, AGAIN, that cessationists believe "the gifts" have ceased.

This is not what cessationists believe.

They believe that the miraculous sign gifts have ceased. Tongues, interpretation of tongues, healings by a particular individual, etcetera.

Some of you guys even claim that cessationists don't believe in the Holy Spirit. Crazy, crazy, ignorant claims.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

well here is another lie

keep em coming right?
'
Brown does not give a thumbs up to Johnson...in fact, I just read Brown's remarks the other day regarding Bethel

you are posting outright lies at this point

what Brown does not do, unlike you, is try to destroy people

I have 0 respect for you at this point and I doubt others, reading your exaggerations and outright lies, are having much either

Brown called Bill Johnson one of America's most beloved pastors in a Line of Fire episode. He has gone out of his way to defend Johnson.

I suggest others listening to Dividing Line episodes concerning Bill Johnson and ask yourself whether he supports him or not.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

No, I didn't. I got my opinions from interacting with Pentecostals/charismatics who are claiming their spiritual superiority due to being "spirit-filled", and treating non-Pentecostals/charismatics as inferior believers. All you have to do is read the above comments to see that some hold this view.

By the way, I find it comical that you guys are denying this is a factor within Pentecostal/charismatic circles seeing as your fellow Pentecostals/charismatics are expressing this view in the same thread. Such as the guy who said that we can't "pray in the spirit" so we are inferior.

opinions are really what you are all about

and you have plenty as we have witnessed

there is nothing comedic going on here. I am not sure we should believe those comments you attribute to spirit filled people

so far, I have caught you in lies and twisted representations of anything you try to present as proof of your commentary

you must be very busy on google trying to find something to back you up, but you are obviously not reading in context and just out gathering cherries for your assortment of pickled fruit

 

[crossnote]

I can't parse out another individuals' salvation, but I think many who believe they are Christians are really false believers, and they later become saved and regenerated.

Like I said in so many words earlier, good arguments can be made from both sides. That's why I won't debate the issue but only share what I went through

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

you cannot back that up with scriputure...are you going for a three tier system now?

there is so much hearsay and exaggeration and downright incorrect information in your attempts at wiping out the gifts and of course especially 'tongues'

you were wrong about GotQuestions

you were wrong about Calvary Chapel

you just move one and do not acknowledge those facts

maybe facts are not important to you, but that would mean you have little regard for the truth

By the way, anyone who believes Bethel's nonsense lacks discernment.

If they think God's glory can be replicated by pouring Hobby Lobby gold dust into a ventilation system, they are crazy. If they came into contact with a powerful manifestation of God's glory, they would be aware how ridiculous it is to claim a fake gold glitter cloud is God's glory.

 

[kaylagrl]

I have listened to Michael Brown. He provides approval and support for blatantly false teachers like Bill Johnson of Bethel Church.

Bill Johnson is one of the worst charismatics in the USA. His group tries to manufacture "miracles' by pouring gold dust into the ventilation system, and dropping feathers from the ceiling, claiming they are from a divine origin. Bethelites have also failed to render medical care to individuals they came into contact with, particularly an asthmatic who ended up suffering brain damage because they didn't call an ambulance to aid him until much later...instead choosing to pray over him and demand that God heal him.

I have some respect for Dr. Brown on some topics, but not on charismatic and Pentecostal teachings.

"Bill Johnson is one of the worst charismatics in the USA. His group tries to manufacture "miracles' by pouring gold dust into the ventilation system, and dropping feathers from the ceiling, claiming they are from a divine origin. "

ITA total nutcase seeking attention. Seen it,called it out. Had a pastor in our church that started with that. He had never believed that way then all of a sudden there was a free for all in our church. When you can't get people to attend your church, then you create something to draw attention. Ripped the church apart but we got him tossed out, not just the church, but the state. He got such a bad name he had to leave. I do NOT agree with that foolishness, nor do most Pentecostals. Charismatics may differ, they have no overseer so they are free to follow whoever and whatever fad. Though I don't think even the majority of Charismatics would agree with that.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

opinions are really what you are all about

and you have plenty as we have witnessed

there is nothing comedic going on here. I am not sure we should believe those comments you attribute to spirit filled people

so far, I have caught you in lies and twisted representations of anything you try to present as proof of your commentary

you must be very busy on google trying to find something to back you up, but you are obviously not reading in context and just out gathering cherries for your assortment of pickled fruit

Note the distinction between "spirit-filled people" and those who are not. Again, we see the divide being expressed in the words of individuals who are claiming I am misrepresenting the elitism of charismatics/Pentecostals.

 

[crossnote]

We disagree that tongues have ceased. How does that mean we do "sloppy exegesis"? We have one point we disagree on. And no, we don't put emphasis more on the Spirit than the cross. Without the cross the Holy Spirit would not have come. But the Holy Spirit does have his work too. To empower saints. Simple as that.

Yours is a prime example of sloppy work. Where did I ever say tongues ceased? Maybe that was an assumption on your part?
The Holy Spirit's role is to point to Jesus...not Himself.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

"Bill Johnson is one of the worst charismatics in the USA. His group tries to manufacture "miracles' by pouring gold dust into the ventilation system, and dropping feathers from the ceiling, claiming they are from a divine origin. "

ITA total nutcase seeking attention. Seen it,called it out. Had a pastor in our church that started with that. He had never believed that way then all of a sudden there was a free for all in our church. When you can't get people to attend your church, then you create something to draw attention. Ripped the church apart but we got him tossed out, not just the church, but the state. He got such a bad name he had to leave. I do NOT agree with that foolishness, nor do most Pentecostals. Charismatics may differ, they have no overseer so they are free to follow whoever and whatever fad. Though I don't think even the majority of Charismatics would agree with that.

Well, I'm glad you realize those things are nutty.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I see you are claiming, AGAIN, that cessationists believe "the gifts" have ceased.

This is not what cessationists believe.

They believe that the miraculous sign gifts have ceased. Tongues, interpretation of tongues, healings by a particular individual, etcetera.

Some of you guys even claim that cessationists don't believe in the Holy Spirit. Crazy, crazy, ignorant claims.

I am just trying to be at least as accurate as you are in your descriptions of those who have the baptism in the Holy Spirit

since the Holy Spirit gives the gifts, who are you to determine if some are no longer available or who gets them?

I have noticed that many claim the gift of teaching, while saying others no longer exist

those particular teachers, will end up teaching error...the way MacArthur does

and you too for that matter...although surely you do not claim to be a teacher?

a cessationist does not really believe the NT as far as I can see. cherry picking what you want to believe and tossing the rest is not really believing