Pentecostal view of the holy spirit.
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You can say that about Baptists or Presbyterians.
I cannot say an atheist or idolator who joins the Watchtower group or the Mormons might not see some improvement from his life and even tell him about having some answered prayers.
but how is this related to what we were discussing? are you planning on converting to JW or Mormonism?
I cannot say an atheist or idolator who joins the Watchtower group or the Mormons might not see some improvement from his life and even tell him about having some answered prayers.
but how is this related to what we were discussing? are you planning on converting to JW or Mormonism?
Did you honestly read the OP? Be honest.
Here is the related part of what we are discussing:
"Speaking in tongues is the only way to be absolutely sure you're saved." which I don't agree with. Though the notion of two different aspects of the holy spirit would explain some things in book of acts. So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?
If Pentecostals or anyone else believes that having this physical supernatural ability is "proof" of salvation then would this be true of all claims regardless of what church?
It seems you are trying to dance around the issue.
Why not simply give a yes or no answer.
Here is the related part of what we are discussing:
"Speaking in tongues is the only way to be absolutely sure you're saved." which I don't agree with. Though the notion of two different aspects of the holy spirit would explain some things in book of acts. So I'm guessing the attitude of Pentecostals claiming your only saved if you speak in tongues is a false stereotype?
If Pentecostals or anyone else believes that having this physical supernatural ability is "proof" of salvation then would this be true of all claims regardless of what church?
It seems you are trying to dance around the issue.
Why not simply give a yes or no answer.
So your responses aren't conceptually linked to the messages we have been passing back and forth in this forum, but rather to one sentence you read in the OP?
I am pretty sure I posted this earlier in the forum, but as someone raised in the Pentecostal movement, I can tell you that the vast majority of Pentecostals do not believe that one has to speak in tongues to be saved. Most Pentecostals are Trinitarian. Back 10 years into the movement or so after the Azusa Street Revival, the Oneness movement sprung up which started to teach Oneness theology instead of Trinitarian. The Assemblies of God was a loose affiliation then, but they put together a doctrinal statement at that point, which caused the Oneness movement to split off. And at some point, it became a common teaching in the Oneness movement to teach this idea that if someone is truly saved, he will speak in tongues.
The last I read, about 5% of Pentecostals were Oneness. There is also a large number of Charismatics in addition to Pentecostals, and I never heard of them teaching that speaking in tongues was a requirement for salvation.
Imagine if Roman Catholics said Protestants didn't believe that Christ rose from the dead, bodily, and quoted the Watch Tower publications, saying they were Protestants. You would probably point out that is a belief taught by Watch Tower, but it wasn't representative of Protestants.
I am pretty sure I posted this earlier in the forum, but as someone raised in the Pentecostal movement, I can tell you that the vast majority of Pentecostals do not believe that one has to speak in tongues to be saved. Most Pentecostals are Trinitarian. Back 10 years into the movement or so after the Azusa Street Revival, the Oneness movement sprung up which started to teach Oneness theology instead of Trinitarian. The Assemblies of God was a loose affiliation then, but they put together a doctrinal statement at that point, which caused the Oneness movement to split off. And at some point, it became a common teaching in the Oneness movement to teach this idea that if someone is truly saved, he will speak in tongues.
The last I read, about 5% of Pentecostals were Oneness. There is also a large number of Charismatics in addition to Pentecostals, and I never heard of them teaching that speaking in tongues was a requirement for salvation.
Imagine if Roman Catholics said Protestants didn't believe that Christ rose from the dead, bodily, and quoted the Watch Tower publications, saying they were Protestants. You would probably point out that is a belief taught by Watch Tower, but it wasn't representative of Protestants.
What hogwash.
You just don't have the backbone to simply answer the question.
My quotes were taken directly from the OP and is paramount to the issue. You on the other hand are simply mudding up the water with talk of Trinitarians, Azura Street Revival, Oneness movement and Assemblies of God.
The two sentences that I quoted from the OP are the backbone of the issue. You just don't want to face the obvious problem with Pentecostal logic. Hence your dancing around the question.
You just don't have the backbone to simply answer the question.
My quotes were taken directly from the OP and is paramount to the issue. You on the other hand are simply mudding up the water with talk of Trinitarians, Azura Street Revival, Oneness movement and Assemblies of God.
The two sentences that I quoted from the OP are the backbone of the issue. You just don't want to face the obvious problem with Pentecostal logic. Hence your dancing around the question.
This tells me something about your character, and how much you care about truth. Some dumb idea comes into your head, and you state it as fact.
I've been responding to your posts using a phone. Your questions aren't interesting or relevant enough to what we were talking about for me to bother with typing a long response while doing other things, especially since you couldn't stay on track in a conversation and wanted to talk about the Loch Ness monster and Mormons instead of biblical doctrine.
But because of a problem with your character, jumped to conclusions and made your false accusation that I wasn't responding because I didn't have a backbone, making your obnoxious comment.
As I recall in this thread, first you are against the idea that certain supernatural manifestations than happen. Then you back pedal and seem to allow room for them, but somehow try to accuse me.
I am not 100% sure what question it is you are falsely accusing me regarding. I am guessing this one, "If the Pentecostals claims are true, why not the Mormons or JW? "
Mormons think God, the Father, is as we are, that is a man, that their god followed Mormon teachings, and that other Mormons could be gods on other planets-- so a different view of the godhead. Followers of the WatchTower are cessationists, as I guess you are... and their organization teaches that Jesus did not rise bodily from the dead and reject the deity of Christ.
For the most part, Pentecostals are trinitarian, and believe in salvation through the risen Christ.
The OP basically answered his own question, but you can look at my early responses in this thread and my previous response to you regarding the OP's questions and comment.
I've been responding to your posts using a phone. Your questions aren't interesting or relevant enough to what we were talking about for me to bother with typing a long response while doing other things, especially since you couldn't stay on track in a conversation and wanted to talk about the Loch Ness monster and Mormons instead of biblical doctrine.
But because of a problem with your character, jumped to conclusions and made your false accusation that I wasn't responding because I didn't have a backbone, making your obnoxious comment.
As I recall in this thread, first you are against the idea that certain supernatural manifestations than happen. Then you back pedal and seem to allow room for them, but somehow try to accuse me.
I am not 100% sure what question it is you are falsely accusing me regarding. I am guessing this one, "If the Pentecostals claims are true, why not the Mormons or JW? "
Mormons think God, the Father, is as we are, that is a man, that their god followed Mormon teachings, and that other Mormons could be gods on other planets-- so a different view of the godhead. Followers of the WatchTower are cessationists, as I guess you are... and their organization teaches that Jesus did not rise bodily from the dead and reject the deity of Christ.
For the most part, Pentecostals are trinitarian, and believe in salvation through the risen Christ.
The OP basically answered his own question, but you can look at my early responses in this thread and my previous response to you regarding the OP's questions and comment.