OSAS = House built on the "ROCK"

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Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
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#1
To say a believer can lose their salvation is an insult to Christ. If a person can lose their salvation, it just means they never had it in the first place.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The above are two very good verses which demonstrate that a true believer can never lose his salvation. So does John 3:16

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In fact, every scripture that calls our salvation “eternal” or “everlasting” is making this claim, that salvation is forever and cannot be undone, that eternal security happens the moment we accept Jesus Christ. (For us to say, “Well, it’s eternal so long as I keep up my end of the bargain” is insulting to the Lord.)

Luke 10:20 Not withstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Jesus clearly thought salvation was secure and unvarying, not dependent on anything external, and thus was everlasting. (I suspect it upsets Him to see how little people value what He achieved on Calvary, to think it’s a temporary situation won or lost by our doings.)

Eph: 1:13 –In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Believers were “sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.” If that’s not eternal security, nothing is. He has literally made believers “tamper-proof.” How good is that!

Eph 2:8-9– For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Everyone agrees that this teaches salvation is not of works, but of faith. The funny thing, however, is that some will turn around and teach that, while good works cannot get us saved, bad ones can undo the Lord’s salvation. Interesting logic. I suspect they’ve just not thought this matter through. If that’s the case, then we are indeed saved by our works.

The entire Epistle to the Hebrews addresses this in numerous places. For instance, Jesus is a better priest and a superior sacrifice than under the former system because while those priests were forever slaughtering sacrificial animals, “through His own blood, He entered the holy place one for all, having obtained eternal salvation” (9:12). One for all. One time for all time. Once saved, always saved.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#2
Wow even Calvin got this one right. Rome has always been wrong about salvation being dependent on the labors of man.

Guess that makes me at least a one point Calvinist. LOL

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#3
Believers were “sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.” If that’s not eternal security, nothing is. He has literally made believers “tamper-proof.” How good is that!
We can certainly agree on that. Indeed God has GUARANTEED the glorification of His children.

ROMANS 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
#4
We can certainly agree on that. Indeed God has GUARANTEED the glorification of His children.

ROMANS 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Agreed. (y)
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#5
OSAS is a rock as long as you continue in the faith.

Do not boast against the [natural] branches. But if you boast against them, you do not support the root, but the root supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off in order that I could be grafted in.” Well said! They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be highminded, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps he will not spare you. Romans 11:18-21
Therefore my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For the one operating in you, both to will and to operate for his good pleasure, is God. Philippians 2:12-13
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
#6
Philippians 2:12-13 must be understood within its CONTEXT, where also it WAS JUST STATED in Philippians 1:12-14,

12 But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;

13 So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places;

14 And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.


Paul is saying to the rest, BE LIKE THESE ^

... work it [what you HAVE] outwardly, in such a way (whether "without fear" or "in fear and trembling"). "WORK OUT your salvation" not "WORK FOR your salvation"
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
#7
Wow even Calvin got this one right. Rome has always been wrong about salvation being dependent on the labors of man.

Guess that makes me at least a one point Calvinist. LOL

For the cause of Christ
Roger
It's really good to see you agree with something that Calvin believed, I think you're on the right track and we can convert you with a bit more work :)
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#8
OSAS is a rock as long as you continue in the faith.

Do not boast against the [natural] branches. But if you boast against them, you do not support the root, but the root supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off in order that I could be grafted in.” Well said! They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be highminded, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps he will not spare you. Romans 11:18-21
Therefore my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For the one operating in you, both to will and to operate for his good pleasure, is God. Philippians 2:12-13
You just have to help. Got to do your part to keep yourself saved.
Why not just have faith that the one who saves you is the one who keeps you saved.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
#9
We can certainly agree on that. Indeed God has GUARANTEED the glorification of His children.

ROMANS 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I notice you included some verses which support predestination and election, it's encouraging to see. I hope that you are coming around to see the reason we believe in this doctrine. There are 40 odd verses in the bible which speak about predestination and election being of God.

I'm not sure what your position is but I would say there are only a few which would seem to support the view that a fallen sinner, who is dead in trespasses and sin saves himself by believing the Gospel. I came out of the free choice movement, to believe in Gods choice after much careful study of scripture.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,665
17,120
113
69
Tennessee
#10
I fully concur with the estimation of the OP.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
#11
OSAS is a rock as long as you continue in the faith.

Do not boast against the [natural] branches. But if you boast against them, you do not support the root, but the root supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off in order that I could be grafted in.” Well said! They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be highminded, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps he will not spare you. Romans 11:18-21
Therefore my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For the one operating in you, both to will and to operate for his good pleasure, is God. Philippians 2:12-13
If one believes they are saved by making a choice to believe the Gospel, then it's only logical that they can chose to reject the gospel and change their minds and even become atheist. I've heard of many cases where a person made a profession of faith and attended Church for many years, then one day they change their minds and reject the Gospel.

I've heard some great sermons on this subject and all the speakers agree that if a person is a true believer, they have put their faith in Christ and held nothing back and Christ will not fail them. He will finish the work He started, so a true believer can only lose their salvation if Jesus fails.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#14
You just have to help. Got to do your part to keep yourself saved.
Why not just have faith that the one who saves you is the one who keeps you saved.
But that would be me working for my salvation.
Ralphie, you have never agreed that God keeps you saved, have you changed your position?
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#15
OSAS is a rock as long as you continue in the faith.
Exactly!

2Peter 1v2-10: "Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble."
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#16
Ralphie, you have never agreed that God keeps you saved, have you changed your position?
I've been saying all along that God keeps you saved if you keep believing. It is through your faith that you have the power for salvation:

"4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. "-1 Peter 1:4-5

Stop having faith and you lose the protection of God's power for salvation.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#17
I've been saying all along that God keeps you saved if you keep believing. It is through your faith that you have the power for salvation:

"4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. "-1 Peter 1:4-5

Stop having faith and you lose the protection of God's power for salvation.
Well you must not be reading the right bible ...because it is not a 50-50 partnership agreement, as in wages due (eternal life) for work (ongoing faith) completed.

There is no time element in saving faith from our end.

Philippians 1:6
6 being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#18
Well you must not be reading the right bible ...because it is not a 50-50 partnership agreement, as in wages due (eternal life) for work (ongoing faith) completed.
You've made a very serious error by equating 'believing' with the works that can not justify. Show me this passage that says my believing is a work of the damnable works gospel.

You have erroneously concluded that the works salvation is defined by you doing anything at all to be justified, not knowing that Paul made it clear that the works gospel is you doing the works of the law to earn justification. Believing is not included in the works of the law that can not justify. In fact, Paul said that believing is actually the very thing you are to do, and must do in order to be justified. But you have concluded since it's something you do that it's you trying to justify yourself. You've made a very serious error in understanding.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#19
There is no time element in saving faith from our end.
You must presently be in the believing you started out with to be presently saved:

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. " - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

You are not saved if you are not holding fast the word of the gospel you heard. Do you want to argue with Paul about this?



Philippians 1:6
6 being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
...if you keep believing.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#20
You've made a very serious error by equating 'believing' with the works that can not justify. Show me this passage that says my believing is a work of the damnable works gospel.

You have erroneously concluded that the works salvation is defined by you doing anything at all to be justified, not knowing that Paul made it clear that the works gospel is you doing the works of the law to earn justification. Believing is not included in the works of the law that can not justify. In fact, Paul said that believing is actually the very thing you are to do, and must do in order to be justified. But you have concluded since it's something you do that it's you trying to justify yourself. You've made a very serious error in understanding.
I can see that your argument is that "works" are only the 'works of the law" as per Paul's letters, therefore you say, "I do not promote a works gospel"

However, your argument solely hinges on "ongoing belief" I can see you trying to avoid it being labeled a works Gospel so I agree on that point .... a big however.......

Paul is also very clear,

When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. Romans 4:4

You cannot deny that sustained belief over time is earning the gift, therefore it is no longer a gift but a wage earned.