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OSAS= House Built on Sand
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The covenant in Genesis 15 was unconditional, but that one only had to do with promising to give the land to Christ. The covenant of circumcision in Genesis 17 was very much conditional; those who weren't circumcised were cut off from GOD.
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Ralph-
Guest
It's amazing to me how some Christians think that because salvation is not earned by works then salvation is by nothing at all. Now even the necessity to have faith to be saved when Jesus comes back is you trying to maintain your own salvation by your own works. Pretty amazing how far the church has fallen. Faith has moved over to the side of the works that can not justify.
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Ralph-
Guest
And let us remember that the promises were made to the seed, the Son of Promise, Christ. We become partakers of those promises by attaching ourselves to Christ through our faith and trust in him. Stop being attached to Christ because of unbelief and you lose the promises made to Christ.
You have to stay where the blessing of the inheritance is to have the inheritance. It is in Christ. You have to stay in Christ through faith to be an heir along with Christ of the promises of the Father. You lose the inheritance if you do not remain attached to the heir, Christ.
As we grow and mature in the Lord, in which we are learning to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walking according to the flesh, we are certainly going to sin.
The context of 1 John 1:9 shows us that John of course is speaking to children of God who are called to walk with the Lord, in the light.
John places himself among those he is instructing.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:6-10
John certainly doesn't include sinners with himself as those who walk with the Lord in the light, as He is in the light.
JPT
IMO it's a new manifestation of the gnostic error, i.e., salvation by the knowledge that we're saved rather than salvation by abiding in Christ through faith. Anything that contradicts the knowledge that a person is saved is anathema, even scriptural admonitions that we must follow Christ to be saved.
Jesus is the Truth.
His word is the Truth.
Those who do not forgive will have their forgiveness of sins revoked and have to pay the penalty for their sins in hell.
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Matthew 18:32-35
JPT
Jesus is teaching about the forgiveness of sins, in the new covenant, that's the context.
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Matthew 18:21-35
JPT
This is the reason Israel abandoned Judah after Solomon's death. Ephraim was the firstborn who inherited the promises and then apportioned them to Israel. There was no birthright in Judah from which Israel could receive an inheritance.
And all Israel saw that the king [of Judah] did not hearken to them: and the people answered the king, saying, What portion have we in David? neither have we any inheritance in the son of Jessæ. Depart, O Israel, to thy tents: now feed thine own house, David. So Israel departed to his tents. 1 Kings 12:16
What the parable reveals is: Jesus teaching His disciples Christians who go astray and become lost: The are as sinners in need of repentance of they will remain lost.
This is also what the Apostle James teaches -
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
- someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death
Christians who wander from the Lord and become lost are sinners in need of repentance, or they will be lost in eternal death.
Please define for us what "lost" means.
JPT
A Christian who becomes lost is in danger of eternal death unless he repents.
A Christian who becomes lost is a sinner in need of repentance: No longer justified [righteous before God] Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
- will save a soul from death
A Christian who is in a "lost" state, is not reconciled to God, and is no longer justified: They are lost......
JPT
Your trust in Christ, (faith, which is a gift from God) is the MECHANISM by which you have Salvation. JESUS HIMSELF is THE Salvation.
I'm saying if you think your following Jesus, (refraining from sin, good deeds, even loving people) is what saves you or keeps you saved, then you have the WRONG Gospel unto Salvation. Obviously I'm not saying we shouldn't do those things, only that they are a BYPRODUCT of being a saved Child of God, and in NO way the procuring element of that Salvation.
The Twelve were not even Christians at the time Jesus spoke the parable. Jesus spoke to them with grace and truth as He did with everyone, but they were under law still. Where does the cross come into life or death?
Also: when does the Christian know he really should repent or be subject to eternal damnation?
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NoNameMcgee
Guest
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Romans 11:29 - For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
1 John 5:13 - These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
2 Corinthians 1:22 - Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Romans 8:38-39 - For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
LOLOL..... right ralph
I think the two kinds of promises are expressed with David. 1 Kings 11:35 -39
"I will tear the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon and will give ten tribes to you" (verse 31).
God goes on to explain that He will leave one tribe, Judah, under the Davidic monarchy in order "that My servant David may always have a lamp before Him in Jerusalem" (verse 36). God, I believe performed this to honor His promise to David that He would "establish the throne of Solomon's kingdom till the end of time ". Solomon failed and went after strange women and their gods .
Christ , the last King, descended from Judah and will sit on that throne forever. The promise went from David to the Son of man, Jesus the Christ. The throne of David typifies the eternal throne of God.
Circumcision was a ceremonial law as a shadow used up until the time of reformation and not something men could judge one another after. Circumcision is used to represent the gospel beforehand it spoke of the suffering of Christ as our bloody husband .
Colossians 2:16-18 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ .Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Good works are not a byproduct of salvation, but the very purpose of salvation.
[Christ] who gave himself for us, that he should ransom us from all lawlessness, and should cleanse to himself an unusual people zealous of good works. Titus 2:14
As always Christ our faithful Creator must do the "first works". If the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ in the Christian does not first turn them by the hearing of faith .No man could repent .No am of his own volition can seek after God unless he first gives them His understand as to how we can hear Him not seen.
Not only does he comfort, guide and teach us but he is also accredited of reminding us what he has taught us.
He will never leave, or forsake the believer. If he has begun the good work of salvation in us we have him as our living confidence he will finish it. Calling us to repentance daily . Again no man can repent unless he does the first work of turning us toward Him.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
He does not teach us and then say: your'e on your own .