Only Believe
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Wrong. Repentance "precedes" faith. (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21) The fruit of repentance follows faith. (Matthew 3:8; Acts 26:20) Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:8-10) It's not believes unto righteousness today (but still lost) then confess next week and finally saved next week. Confession is a confirmation of faith and not a work for salvation after one believes unto righteousness. Also see Romans 4:5 - "faith is accounted for righteousness" = saved. Water baptism "follows" faith. (Acts 8:36-38; 10:43-47; 16:31-34)
Wrong. Again, repentance "precedes" faith (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21) and water baptism comes "after" faith is established. (Acts 8:36-38; 10:43-47; 16:31-34)
False.
In regard to Acts 2:37, their "belief" at this point was "mental assent" belief that Jesus was the Messiah, and they were guilty of crucifying Him. That is not saving faith yet. They still needed to repent (change their mind) about Jesus further which would culminate in believing in/trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 16:31; 20:21) Baptism was done on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received when they repented, and faith is already implied or assumed because repentance and faith are two sides to the same coin. (Acts 20:21)
Suffering for the Lord's sake was what Paul must do. Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.” Now it's one thing to believe "mental assent" in the existence of Jesus and in certain facts about Jesus and it's another thing to believe in/have faith in/trust in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation, which is saving belief. The demons believe the former but not the latter. Mere mental assent belief must precede repentance and saving belief comes after repentance. You don't seem to understand the difference. You seem to believe that ALL belief is the same and cannot seem to grasp a deeper belief/faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. This explains why you have so much faith in water and works.
These Jews needed to come to realization first that Jesus was the Messiah and that they were guilty of crucifying Him (which they did). Now once they acknowledged that, then they could repent (change their mind) even further and place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation which goes beyond simply acknowledging who Jesus is.
You just said they needed to repent toward God and believe in the Christ.
That is the order. The repentance toward God "precedes" faith in Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21) The repentance (change of mind) towards God involves Jesus and the new direction of that change of mind is faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. For some people, prior to coming to the end result of repentance in receiving salvation (faith in Jesus Christ for salvation), they must change their minds about other specific things in order to get there. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
Even the demons believe in God. (James 2:19) That is not enough to save. We must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved. (Acts 16:31)
CONTINUED..
You continue to confuse mere "mental assent" belief with saving belief in Jesus Christ. I don't teach "faith only" per James 2:24 - empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains barren of works. (James 2:14) That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. I teach salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 3:24-26; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Learn the difference.
Did Jesus put baptism after faith in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26?) NO. Jesus did not even mention baptism in those verses. Now if he who believes will be saved then he who believes and is baptized will be saved as well, yet Jesus clarifies the first clause with the second in Mark 16:16 - but he who does not believe will be condemned. So, it's the lack of belief that causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. So, "he who believes and is baptized will be saved" is general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized
Faith is only the first step?
I hear that a lot from folks who teach salvation by faith + works. If the eunuch believed (which he did) then he already repented in the process of changing his mind and choosing to believe. Phillip asked the eunuch a direct question and his answer to this question confirmed that he believed. His confession was not a work for salvation but an expression of his faith. Your reasoning is neither logical nor scriptural and it culminates in salvation by works.Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.
We must repent (change our mind) before we can believe in Jesus Christ unto salvation and confess/believe; believe confess are chronologically together. In your muti-step plan of salvation (1. believe 2. repent 3. confess 4. be baptized) confession comes before baptism and according to your plan one is not saved unto "after" they are water baptized. So according to your plan, how can one believe unto righteousness and confession be made unto salvation if one is not saved until "after" water baptism which comes "after" believes and confesses in your multi-step plan of salvation? Such confusion!
It's faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation doctrine and not "faith only" bare profession of faith doctrine. Learn the difference. I never said that confession and faith are the same thing. I said they are chronologically together because the word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart together. (Romans 10:8) Now in 1 Corinthians 12:3, we read - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord at conversion and beyond. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that) but is a deep personal conviction from the heart that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" then checking it off your list of steps not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.
CONTINUED..
I never said they were all the exact same thing.
Repentance and faith are two sides to the same coin and the Holy Spirit and God the Father teach that. (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21)
Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.
Mark 1:15 - “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the gospel!” *Notice the order.
Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order.
Straw man argument.
Yes, together. (Romans 10:8)
Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach). In our mouth and in our heart together and not days or weeks apart. Confess/believe; believe/confess.
The same word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart (two parts of the body) together. Why would Paul say the word of faith is both in our mouth and in our heart if not together? Because you need to protect your multi-step plan of salvation that culminates in salvation by works.
Notice the order.
Did you miss the reversal? Confess/believe; believe/confess. (Romans 10:9,10) Inward belief finds outward expression. Not as a work for salvation, but as an expression of faith. Someone who is handicapped and cannot speak (mute) would remain lost according to your erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10) for failing to verbally confess with their mouth as a work for salvation after one believes unto righteousness which really is not unto righteousness according to your interpretation because further steps are also needed which culminates in works salvation.
What is ridiculous is your bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics which culminate in salvation by faith + works. I had at one time temporarily attended the church of Christ, so I understand your confusion.
@Blue155
If you can’t handle the Word of God with the reverence it deserves, it’s better to stop quoting it until you can.
Scripture isn’t a tool for scoring points — it’s truth to be handled with humility and the fear of the Lord.
Lashing out in hostility when someone challenges your misuse of it isn’t maturity; it’s avoidance.
If you can’t handle the Word of God with the reverence it deserves, it’s better to stop quoting it until you can.
Scripture isn’t a tool for scoring points — it’s truth to be handled with humility and the fear of the Lord.
Lashing out in hostility when someone challenges your misuse of it isn’t maturity; it’s avoidance.
Grace and peace.
“Spot on” isn’t an argument.
If you agree with something, show why from Scripture. Otherwise, it’s just applause without substance.
The discussion here deserves more than empty affirmations — it deserves careful handling of the Word, something I've pointed out you've been lacking several times with your posts!
Grace and peace.
No one is denying that faith is important or that it is one of the things the Bible teaches that saves us—along with “repentance”, Acts 2:38, “confession”, Romans 10:10, and “baptism”, 1 Peter 3:21. They are all necessary according to the Holy Spirit who wrote the Bible.
I was responding to a statement by Mailman that said, “Your problem…is that you put repentance, confession and water baptism AFTER faith…” Then he said, “Repentance comes BEFORE faith.” The Bible does not teach that “order” of repentance, then faith. Here is the order the Holy Spirit gives. Acts 2:38-the Jews believed because they asked Peter “what shall we do?” Do you think that is evidence of UNBELIEF? Why even CARE what someone thinks you should do to be saved if you don’t “believe” in the first place? Since they already proved they believed Peter’s sermon, he told them to repent and be baptized. Did the Holy Spirit put repentance before faith or after faith? The Holy Spirit put repentance and baptism after they believed. I was accused of putting repentance and baptism AFTER faith but my response was that it wasn’t ME that created the order but was the Holy Spirit that put it there. How am I “misrepresenting what was actually said?”
I was not accusing Mailman of “denying repentance or obedience”. My whole response was in regard to the “order” of repentance and faith along with confession and baptism; and that just because he is teaching a different order than what is taught in God’s word. Even YOU said “ those who believe will repent” putting repentance AFTER faith which is exactly what I said. You even said that repentance and baptism FOLLOW. Peter’s command to believe. That’s exactly what I believe. But that is not what Mailman believes. If you re-read his posts on thIS subject, he believes repentance comes FIRST, BEFORE FAITH!! He is the one changing the “order” OF faith and repentance. You said “ faith produces obedience” and that’s exactly what I believe. You and mailman disagree on the order of faith and repentance. Which is why it surprises me that he gave you a favorable response. But you and I AGREE on the correct order of faith and repentance. So why say that I keep rearranging the order God gives?
The problem you and I have is disagreeing on the order of “SALVATION.” I put salvation AFTER FAITH, REPENTANCE and BAPTISM, because Peter puts it after faith, repentance, and baptism in Acts 2:38. When those Jews asked “What shall we do ( to be saved)?”, if salvation is at the point of “faith”, than what Peter SHOUID HAVE SAID IS “NOTHING!” You have already believed so now you are saved. But that is NOT what he said. He said you must repent and be baptized FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. Do you believe you can be saved without the remission if sins? You would have to believe that if you think they were saved at the point of faith —alone! So they were saved in their sins?? Because the Holy Spirit makes it very clear that remission of sins comes AFTER BAPTISM—not after faith. Now, who is rearranging the “order” of salvation? Not me. I agree with exactly what the Spirit wrote and exactly what Peter said. Faith, repentance, and baptism = SALVATION ( remission f sins.)
Acts 22:16 - “…arise, and be baptized and WASH AWAY YOUR SINS.” Isn’t this equal to forgiveness of sins? Does this verse place baptism BEFORE or AFTER salvation? It places baptism BEFORE salvation.
Mark 16:16 - “ Ge that believes and is baptized shall be saved.” Where did the Holy Spirit place salvation? AFTER BAPTISM. Not BEFORE baptism and NOT at the point of faith. WHO IS REARRANGING THE ORDER OF SALVATION? NOT me. I believe it just like the Holy Spirit wrote it. I believe remission of sins and salvation come after faith, repentance and baptism just like the Bible puts it.
1 Peter 3:21 - “ … baptism now saves us.” Where does the Holy Spirit place salvation, BEFORE or AFTER baptism? If baptism saves us then salvation would have to be AFTER baptism.
You said “ salvation is not caused by repentance and baptism.” You said, “it is received through faith.” I say the Bible does not teach that and I have given ample scripture to prove my position.
No need to give me 100 verses that teach that faith is necessary. I believe every scripture that says that faith is important and necessary to salvation. You just need to give me ONE verse that says we are saved by faith ALONE. Because you see, there is a huge difference between saying we are saved by faith and saying we are saved by faith alone. Yes, we are saved by faith, the Bible says so—it does not say we are saved by faith alone. It says we are saved by FAITH, REPENTANCE ( Acts 2:38) CONFESSION ( Roman’s 10:10) and BAPTISM (1 Peter 3:21 and Mark 16:16).
You are totally taking Roman’s 11:6 out of it’s CONTEXT. If you will read the context of that verse you will see that Paul is talking about the “works” of the Old Jewish law, not the works of God like Faith, repentance, confession and baptism. John 6:29. He even mentions some Old Testament people like Abraham and Elijah. Then he says there is a “ remnant of Jews who have been saved by grace ( become believers in Christ). They were NOT saved by the “works” of the Old Jewish Law, but by “grace”, which represents the new Law of Faith of Jesus Christ. You are trying to make that verse say something that it is not even talking about. Anyone who actually reads verses 1-6 can prove this to themselves.
Nowhere in the word of God does it say that faith by itself saves us. Nowhere does it teach “ faith only” saves us. All of the passages in John and elsewhere that teach the importance of faith and that faith is NECESSARY TO SALVATION are very true but DO NOT TEACH SALVATION BY FAITH “ALONE.” God, the Holy Spirit wrote, “ You see then that by works a man is justified and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.”
B
Blue155
Guest
On Grace and Baptism
To say that baptism is essential to salvation does not at all contradict the truth that we are saved by grace. We can never earn our salvation. Baptism is a CONDITION of salvation.
Dipping 7 times in the Jordan was a condition for Naaman to be cleansed of his leprosy .2 Kings 5. And washing in the pool of Siloam was a condition for the blind man to receive his sight. John 9. Neither man earned his cure. Neither man could boast about what he had done. Each knew that he was healed by the grace of God.
God could have used other means in their cases if He so chose. In fact, Jesus healed both lepers and blind men without the use of water. Matt 8:2-4, Mark 10:46-52, Luke 17:11-19. But neither Naaman nor the blind man of John 9 could expect a cure unless they went to the water.
In the same way, God makes baptism a condition of salvation. Just as in the case of Naaman and the blind man, God has chosen water as an element in our healing.
Was there something in the Jordan River that could heal lepers? Could the waters of the pool of Siloam in themselves make blind men see? Surely it’s obvious that in both cases the power of God healed these men—on the condition that they wash in the water which God specified. THIS WAS A TEST OF THEIR FAITH AND OBEDIENCE. ( emphasis mine).
Water does not wash away sins, but the blood of Christ does. When? At the moment we are buried with Him in baptism. Acts 2:38, 22:16.
Praise be to God for His marvelous grace!
—-David Gibson
Not my words but I could not have said it any better and not nearly as well.
To say that baptism is essential to salvation does not at all contradict the truth that we are saved by grace. We can never earn our salvation. Baptism is a CONDITION of salvation.
Dipping 7 times in the Jordan was a condition for Naaman to be cleansed of his leprosy .2 Kings 5. And washing in the pool of Siloam was a condition for the blind man to receive his sight. John 9. Neither man earned his cure. Neither man could boast about what he had done. Each knew that he was healed by the grace of God.
God could have used other means in their cases if He so chose. In fact, Jesus healed both lepers and blind men without the use of water. Matt 8:2-4, Mark 10:46-52, Luke 17:11-19. But neither Naaman nor the blind man of John 9 could expect a cure unless they went to the water.
In the same way, God makes baptism a condition of salvation. Just as in the case of Naaman and the blind man, God has chosen water as an element in our healing.
Was there something in the Jordan River that could heal lepers? Could the waters of the pool of Siloam in themselves make blind men see? Surely it’s obvious that in both cases the power of God healed these men—on the condition that they wash in the water which God specified. THIS WAS A TEST OF THEIR FAITH AND OBEDIENCE. ( emphasis mine).
Water does not wash away sins, but the blood of Christ does. When? At the moment we are buried with Him in baptism. Acts 2:38, 22:16.
Praise be to God for His marvelous grace!
—-David Gibson
Not my words but I could not have said it any better and not nearly as well.
that last statement opens the Christian senses!“But Jesus, overhearing what was being spoken, *said to the synagogue official, “Do not be afraid, only believe.””
Mark 5:36 NASB2020
Sometimes we can complicate what God is looking for. The simplicity of faith is far more powerful than the biggest mountain.
Talk about calling the kettle black! Why don't you change your profile so everyone can see how often you have been corrected?
The Bible is very clear about HOW we are “United” with Christ.
“Do you not know that as many of us as were BAPTIZED into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through BAPTISM into death…For if we have been UNITED TOGETHER in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection.” Romans 6:3-5
We become “United together” with Christ through baptism into Him.
That post from Beckworth is a classic baptismal regeneration proof-text, but it rips Romans 6:3–5 out of context. Paul’s focus there isn’t on water baptism, but on spiritual union — the believer’s identification with Christ’s death and resurrection through faith.
Romans 6 isn’t defining how we get into Christ by a physical act — it’s describing what happens because we’re already in Him by faith.
Paul uses baptism there figuratively to illustrate union, not as the instrument that causes it. He’s not teaching that water unites us to Christ, but that those who are already united by faith are immersed into His death and raised with Him to new life.
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” — Galatians 3:27
The same Paul had already said two verses earlier that we are “children of God by faith in Christ Jesus” (Gal 3:26). The faith comes first; baptism simply pictures that union.
So yes, we’re united with Christ — but through faith, not through the water itself.
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
That’s another very surface-level take — Beckworth is reducing Romans 6:3–5 KJV to “union by water,” which is exactly what Paul wasn’t teaching. That’s not what Romans 6 is saying. Paul isn’t talking about water baptism causing union with Christ, but about believers being identified with His death and resurrection through faith.
If you make it about the water, you miss Paul’s whole point! — that we’ve already been united with Christ spiritually, and baptism simply pictures that reality.
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:26 KJV
Faith unites us to Christ; baptism testifies to it.
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
That post from Beckworth cleverly mixes partial truths (grace and obedience) with a false equivalence between Old Testament ritual obedience and New Testament salvation by faith. The examples of Naaman and the blind man don’t prove baptism is a condition of salvation — they show that faith responds to God’s word. Neither man was saved by the water itself, but by believing what God said. The water was the occasion, not the cause.
That’s exactly Paul’s point in Romans 4:3 KJV — Abraham “believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” God honors faith that trusts His word, not ritual acts that try to earn grace.
If water baptism were the condition that saves, Paul never could have said,
“Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel” — 1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV.
The blood of Christ saves the moment one believes (Romans 5:1 KJV, Ephesians 1:7 KJV). Baptism follows as the outward confession of what faith has already received.
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
@Beckworth Honestly, every time you post this kind of argument, you just end up making yourself look foolish.
You see if water baptism were the condition that saves, Paul never could have said,
“Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel” — 1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV.
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
B
Blue155
Guest
@Beckworth, sister, don’t waste any more time and save your peace by putting LightBearer316 on ignore. He uses a system where he copies and pastes answers into a system [very similar to AI] and the system automatically generates answers for him to just blindly copy and paste. He uses it very irresponsible, and you cannot have a rational and reasonable discussion with him as the result. Then, when all of this is pointed out to him, he ends up calling you a troll, or gets more AI style generated responses to try save his credibility, which is all but nothing.