Oneness or trinity, Is Jesus God or man?

[Whispered]

You will be suprised to know that there are many who believed their pastor is Jesus...
But do not be swayed... you can watched and listened to other doctrines...but afterwards verify them if according to scriptures. Be bless.

A school chum of mine was raised Roman Catholic. His mother did believe that when the priest was giving the homily and giving out communion that he was indwelt by Jesus. Or, "became" Jesus.
I'd never heard that same idea from any of my other RC friends before we became acquainted. I think even the pope would be surprised by that.

 

[SoulWeaver]

God the Father...in scriptures...
2Pe 1:17 KJV For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

But where in the scriptures can you find God the Son...
If you cannot find it...what does that mean. Heresy

The Son is God come in flesh.
If the Word IS God, and it dwelled in flesh, full of grace and truth, as the Bible says, then Son is nothing but God manifested in tangible world, aka in flesh and available to five senses. And He manifested in human form because man was made in the image of God.

The Father cannot be observed because we cannot set ourselves apart to observe Him, in Him we have our being, He is invisible omnipresent Spirit. But Son by entering physical realm enables us to know God. This is why Jesus says, when apostles ask Him to show them the Father: "I HAVE BEEN WITH YOU SO LONG - how can you then say to me 'show us the Father?'". Jesus directly says there, how are you guys not getting it, it's Me! Jesus is the Father shown in physical world.

 

[watcher2013]

The Son is God come in flesh.
If the Word IS God, and it dwelled in flesh, full of grace and truth, as the Bible says, then Son is nothing but God manifested in tangible world, aka in flesh and available to five senses. And He manifested in human form because man was made in the image of God.

The Father cannot be observed because we cannot set ourselves apart to observe Him, in Him we have our being, He is invisible omnipresent Spirit. But Son by entering physical realm enables us to know God. This is why Jesus says, when apostles ask Him to show them the Father: "I HAVE BEEN WITH YOU SO LONG - how can you then say to me 'show us the Father?'". Jesus directly says there, how are you guys not getting it, it's Me! Jesus is the Father shown in physical world.

The Son is not the Father nor the Son is the Father...
What we see is the Son doing whatever the Father do...and speaking what the Father wants to say..hebrews 1:1.

Example:
Gen 22:11-12 KJV 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Who is saying: the angel...
Does that mean the angel is also the Father?

 

[r1xlx]

Thank you for sharing the scripture that actually refutes your prior argument.
You cannot argue on that platform while ignoring Gods own words [Continues @ Link]

Oh no, not again!
GOD is not Jesus and Jesus is not GOD.
But Jesus himself said all power and authroity had been given him! Given by whom?

 

[SoulWeaver]

The Son is not the Father nor the Son is the Father...
What we see is the Son doing whatever the Father do...and speaking what the Father wants to say..hebrews 1:1.

Example:
Gen 22:11-12 KJV 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Who is saying: the angel...
Does that mean the angel is also the Father?

"Angel of the Lord" is a specific phrase in the Scripture that refers to God/Holy Spirit, or more precisely, since angel of the Lord talked with Moses from the bush, preincarnated Christ. Per example, here (it's clearly God speaking):

Judges 2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which ***I sware unto your fathers***; and I said, I will never break ***my covenant*** with you.

 

[Melach]

Yes its true..the Word WAS God..

you cant just stop being God. its not God then. seriously where do people come with this arguments?

 

[watcher2013]

"Angel of the Lord" is a specific phrase in the Scripture that refers to God/Holy Spirit, or more precisely, since angel of the Lord talked with Moses from the bush, preincarnated Christ. Per example, here (it's clearly God speaking):

Judges 2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which ***I sware unto your fathers***; and I said, I will never break ***my covenant*** with you.

Wow...you just demoted the holy spirit.

 

[watcher2013]

you cant just stop being God. its not God then. seriously where do people come with this arguments?

Its unbelievavble isn't...
Thats shows how much God truly loves us...
The Word became flesh...say it slowly...and you will be immersed with Love...how much beauty...

Everyone wants to be immortal...and yet this immortal became mortal..to taste death .

 

[SoulWeaver]

Wow...you just demoted the holy spirit.

How did I demote the Holy Spirit? You must have read what I said backwards... because I said the opposite.
Phrase "Angel of the Lord" doesn't mean a created being. It means "Spirit of the Lord" or Holy Spirit. It's refering to God. Apparently from the verse I cited, which says "my covenant" "I promised you" etc.

 

[watcher2013]

How did I demote the Holy Spirit? You must have read what I said backwards... because I said the opposite.
Phrase "Angel of the Lord" doesn't mean a created being. It means "Spirit of the Lord" or Holy Spirit. It's refering to God. Apparently from the verse I cited, which says "my covenant" "I promised you" etc.

Oh..what i understand...angels are called angels...
Another example;
Heb 1:5-6 KJV 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Oh..what i understand...angels are called angels...
Another example;
Heb 1:5-6 KJV 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

I don't know why you believe that Jesus stopped being God. The very reason Jesus was killed was supposed "blasphemy" for making Himself equal with God, but we know Jesus didn't lie or blaspheme... if Jesus never claimed to be God, how was He crucified for blasphemy of doing so. Jesus being only human servant of God makes no sense with the Gospel story.

 

[watcher2013]

I don't know why you believe that Jesus stopped being God. The very reason Jesus was killed was supposed "blasphemy" for making Himself equal with God, but we know Jesus didn't lie or blaspheme... if Jesus never claimed to be God, how was He crucified for blasphemy of doing so. Jesus being only human servant of God makes no sense with the Gospel story.

Read post no. #326...

 

[SoulWeaver]

Read post no. #326...

I looked at it. Here it is, in your very post, you just ignored it:

1Pe 1:2-4 KJV 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

And you did not answer why was Jesus killed for blasphemy, unless He did indeed claim to be equal with God.

 

[watcher2013]

I looked at it. Here it is, in your very post, you just ignored it:

1Pe 1:2-4 KJV 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

And you did not answer why was Jesus killed for blasphemy, unless He did indeed claim to be equal with God.

I Did answer all of them..but for your sake...
Regarding Jesus as Lord...
God made the man Jesus Lord..
Act 2:36 KJV Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Regarding Jesus as Saviour..
God (father) exalted him to be prince and a saviour.
Act 5:31 KJV Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

As for blasphemy...
Jesus was accused of breaking the sabbath....
Did he break the sabbath?...
the problem lies on how those accuser understand the sabbath...
Jesus expounded sabbath by telliing them that doing good on sabbath..is not breaking it...
He gave circumcission as an example...8 days after birth...
Meaning..if circumcission the 8th days falls on sabbath...they do performed circumcission...

So its the understanding of the accuser about sabbath is wrong...

Now for blasphemy...
Never did Jesus said that he is God...
He said...he is the Son of God... and God is is father...

Is Jesus comitting blasphemy????
of course he didn't...because what he said is true...
It is how they understand blasphemy...the same as how they understand the sabbath....

Joh 5:18 KJV Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Never did Jesus said that he is God...

John 5:18 KJV Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Jesus was also almost stoned by refering to Himself as the great I AM, and many people worshipped Him, which He never refused, and the Scriptures makes a big point of mere men and angels always properly rejecting worship this is always mentioned. Jesus accepted worship. I guess believe what you decided to believe whether it's true or not...

 

[watcher2013]

Jesus was also almost stoned by refering to Himself as the great I AM, and many people worshipped Him, which He never refused, and the Scriptures makes a big point of mere men and angels always properly rejecting worship this is always mentioned. Jesus accepted worship. I guess believe what you decided to believe whether it's true or not...

Its evident that you did not read post. 326...

Read john 8...who is speaking through Jesus?

Regarding worship...
Heb 1:6 KJV And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

God allowed the worship of the Son.

 

[posthuman]

Its unbelievavble isn't...

how many Saviours are there?
just one, right?

Who is our Saviour?

 

[posthuman]

God allowed the worship of the Son.

Jesus answered,
"It is written: 'worship the LORD your God and serve Him only.'"
(Luke 4:8)

​

Jesus accepted worship, so He's either the LORD God Himself or He's a blasphemous hypocritical liar.
who do you side with - those who crucified Him or those who believe Him?

 

[r1xlx]

John10:30 does say 'GOD and I are one.'
However earlier verses say:
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

These verse quite clearly show the CONTEXT: That Jesus is explaining GOD has tasked him with helping the lost sheep escape the wolves of the temple.
By saying GOD has to lay down his life we have to wonder who raises Him on the third day as presumably with GOD dead on the cross Jesus must also be dead and the holy spook too.
So many people cannot read a full chapter to determine the context and understand who is speaking and from whom to who do the words apply.
For instance, Exodus 3:2 clearly explains how an angel can speak for GOD and be taken as GOD's representative.
2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

 

[Laish]

A school chum of mine was raised Roman Catholic. His mother did believe that when the priest was giving the homily and giving out communion that he was indwelt by Jesus. Or, "became" Jesus.
I'd never heard that same idea from any of my other RC friends before we became acquainted. I think even the pope would be surprised by that.

What your school chum was referring to is probably from here
Alter Christus ( another Christ ) Latin

"As an alter Christus, the priest is profoundly united to the Word of the Father who, in becoming incarnate took the form of a servant, he became a servant (Phil 2: 5-11). The priest is a servant of Christ, in the sense that his existence, configured to Christ ontologically, acquires an essentially relational character: he is in Christ, for Christ and with Christ, at the service of humankind. Because he belongs to Christ, the priest is radically at the service of all people: he is the minister of their salvation, their happiness and their authentic liberation, developing, in this gradual assumption of Christ's will, in prayer, in "being heart to heart" with him. Therefore this is the indispensable condition for every proclamation, which entails participation in the sacramental offering of the Eucharist and docile obedience to the Church." - Pope Beneedict XVI 24 June 2009

Blessings
Bill