I admire your stamina.
I recognized the contrarian spirit of malice when a scripture was denigrated to the rank of pet verse.
Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I recognized the contrarian spirit of malice when a scripture was denigrated to the rank of pet verse.
Thats correct. I can not will my kids to be saved..I can not will for them to believe in Christ. they must believe themselves
It causes the word to contradict itself..
John said but as many as received him, to THEM he gave the power or right.
Paul said Abraham believed God. and THEN it was accounted to him. and in the same mannor, iuf WE believe God, he will account it to us also.
the reason it is not reasonable. is because it causes the word of God to contradict. Which in my view. makes the word unbelievable..
and here he is again..I admire your stamina.
I recognized the contrarian spirit of malice when a scripture was denigrated to the rank of pet verse.
can you explan why God through paul said ABRAHAM BELIEVED, and THEN God accredited it to him?
If you can;t you might as well keep banging your head on the wall.. Because maybe you will knock some sense into yourself.
By the way I am still waiting for you to show where I flip flopped?
Are you going to be like others and falsly accuse and then run away with your tail between your legs?
in that passage, where does it say GODS faith cause abraham to believe God?
please word for word. I broke the passage down for you. You break it down for me
Again, what seems unreasonable to you, seems perfectly clear to another. And vice-versa.
That was/is my point. One cannot come to a correct interpretation from only one verse. All pertinent verses
must be considered. God did not write the Bible to be understood that way.
Its unreasonable that God says power is given to those who receive christ and you say power is given SO they can receive Christ
Its unreasonable to say Abraham believed God. and THEN it was accounted to him as righteousness. to say God imputed faith to Abraham, which caused Abraham to believe, and cause Abraham to be counted as righteous (justified)
its unreasonable that God claims to be a God of love. and tells us to love others as he loved us. But then picked and chose who to love and who not to love, in other words. telling us to do what he himself refused to do.
I can go on and on and on.
I admire your stamina.
I recognized the contrarian spirit of malice when a scripture was denigrated to the rank of pet verse.
Thank you very much, ButterflyJones. I really appreciate it.
well yeah, one can.
It did not say And God imputed his faith to Abraham so abraham could believe in God and then it be accounted to him as righteousness.
it did not say But to him who does not work but God imputes his faith, so that trhe person has the ability to believe on Him who justifies the ungodly, so that Gods faith is accounted for righteousness,
that is the context of verse 9.. You claim it is Gods faith.. It does not fit the context of the passage before that
Where did you find a "then"?
If you're going to criticize God for choosing based upon election, then what happens to those people, who for whatever reason outside of their control, cannot do that which you say they must do for salvation? Do you think God unjust in judging them for
reasons outside of their control? Would He be doing to them what (according to you) He himself refuses to do, or do you
choose to ignore that aspect?
Well yeah, you can because you're not really interested in following the biblical admonitions it sets forth
for instructions as to how it should be read. It's no wonder that is why you keep coming to incorrect conclusion.
And abraham believed God, and it was accounted as righteousness And is the next thing that happens..
Where do you see the word Gods gave his faiht to abraham??
I am criticizing your interpretation of election. And your interpretation of Gods love. Not God
You do not tell a person thay have no excuse (romans 1) and then tell them they are condemned forever. even though he never gave them a chance to repent..
dude, your pride runs deep.
You keep attacking me with nonsense.. You assume you are right. I could use the same argument on you. But I chose to be more humble.
Your pride is your worse enemy.. I see perfectly clear my friend..
God in His role as Christ. He gives the faith of Christ to all He makes born again, including Abraham.
It says that here:
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
The same argument can be made for your argument for those people who cannot come to belief for reasons outside of their control.
God owes salvation to no one. He gives it to whomsoever He desires to.
Not!
It's that you refuse to follow the rules which the Bible clearly states. You can't come to truth that way
You chose to ignore my question to you. Here it is again: if someone, through no fault of their own, cannot do those things that you deem as a requirement for salvation, then how would you assess God in not saving him, since it being
beyond the person's control? Explanation, please.
Yes, and he's very far ahead. He's had a lot more practice at it than I've had.
Thats not what the passage says.
we have been over this 100 times, these are gifts the spirit gives to those who have been saved and have been given the HS. Which paul in eph 1: 13- 14 sdays happens after we heard the word, then believe then we are sealed (given) the HS. Your gifts are THEN given
No one will come to jesus with out being drawn and taught by God..
That does not mean they are born again first. God does not need to give me new birth to make me believe in him, he has the power to convince me without making me alive.
Why do you doubt Gods power?
I never said he did
He desires that whoever sees and believes will be saved.
Why that bothers you so much is beyond me
lol..
lets put it this way.
if I, through no fault of my own, can come to receive the gift of salvation that God is ofeering based on his work alone
then God can not judge me for not having faith in him
He who believes is not condemned
Jesus said this.. That is the law..