Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[rogerg]

When does this happen?

when Christ faith?

or when they trust Christ?

Neither. Man cannot control nor dictate when or if it will happen. It is totally at God's discretion and good pleasure, to whom it is given.
However, it only happens to those whom He has so chosen for it before the foundation of the world.

Your right, so they must come to the point they trust the person who can change it for them

It is not possible for the dead to do so. Remember, being spiritually dead is being spiritually oblivious.

[Eph 1:4-5 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Thats why the natural man must be broken, Only God can do this. But he will not do it against someones will.

It is not a question of will, instead, it is the dead being giving to them spiritual life.

This is why it is hard to talk to certain people

the very fact I have the ability to trust in CHrist for Christ to save me is by his grace. it is the gift of God. as is my salvation.

Me trusting GOD is not me saving myself. I do not know why you seem to think it is. but it is not.

Until you realize this, It will be impossible for yuo to comprehend what I believe

Oh, I definitely comprehend what your belief is, For many years, I used to believe exactly the same as you.

Anyway, if you truly trust it Christ as Saviour and in His perfect offering, then whether you realized it or not,
you had already become saved - it doesn't come with bells and whistles going off.
Salvation first, then becoming born again, with the fruit of the Spirit accompanying that. Otherwise
it wouldn't be a free gift as we are told that it is.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Who, and how, do they become "set free"?

Or:

Who? Jesus Christ, The Saviour, and me (or everyone), the sinner(s)

What? Eternal Life, His FREE Gift

How? By "Grace Through faith"

When? Instantaneously, at the "moment of the above" 'how'

Where? anywhere and everywhere on earth

Why? Because Of The Merits Of Christ's:

Shed (ALL-Sufficient) BLOOD Of His Finished Work, On The Cross

Amen.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Neither. Man cannot control nor dictate when or if it will happen. It is totally at God's discretion and good pleasure, to whom it is given.
However, it only happens to those whom He has so chosen for it before the foundation of the world.

If this is true no man can know they are saved. no man can know they have eternal life. No man can know they are Gods child..

there has to be something that happens that a person KNOWS when they were saved..

It is not possible for the dead to do so. Remember, being spiritually dead is being spiritually oblivious.

[Eph 1:4-5 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Yep. true. But this verse does not prove your point.. You keep saying the dead can not do it.. The dead can not do anything good or bad. so even your own term is nonsensical.

It is not a question of will, instead, it is the dead being giving to them spiritual life.

Yes. Because they asked for God to save them.

He who believes, he who does not believe. we always come back to jesus words. This passage about faith vs unbelief is what seperates the saved and lost. it is the ONLY thing which does that

The child of Israel CHOSE freely to look up at the serpent, and even though he could not save himself. He was saved

the one who refused in unbelief, died. because they could not save themselves

God offered salvation to both. But both were not saved

Oh, I definitely comprehend what your belief, For many years, I used to believe exactly the same as you.

If you knew what I believed you would not falsly accuse me of so much stuff. No my friend, you have no comprehension of what I believe

Anyway, if you truly trust it Christ as Saviour and in His perfect offering, then whether you realized it or not,
you had already become saved - it doesn't come with bells and whistles going off.
Salvation first, then becoming born again, with the fruit of the Spirit accompanying that. Otherwise
it wouldn't be a free gift as we are told that it is.

No my friend,

The tax collector went home justified AFTER he called out to God for mercy, Not before.

 

[rogerg]

If this is true no man can know they are saved. no man can know they have eternal life. No man can know they are Gods child..

there has to be something that happens that a person KNOWS when they were saved..

But they come to learn/know that over time by understanding scripture. Primarily when they come to the realization that Christ is the Saviour in every way and He saves to the uttermost, realizing they have contributed nothing whatsoever for it - but instead, that it is a free gift from God, and they have been granted full and complete mercy and forgiveness for their sin in all aspects and respects by God.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

But they come to learn/know that over time by understanding scripture. Primarily when they come to the realization that Christ is the Saviour in every way and He saves to the uttermost, realizing they have contributed nothing whatsoever for it - but instead, that it is a free gift from God, and they have been granted full and complete mercy and forgiveness for their sin in all aspects and respects by God.

well lets pray they do not die before then.

sorry man, that makes no sense.. literally no sense

 

[thomas64]

Correct, and there are two points that may solve all the Confusion:

1) God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided - ie:

God’s Context Of ‘prophecy/covenants/law’ program:

• TWELVE Apostles (Mat. 10:2; Luk 6:13, 22:14;

• gospel of the kingdom (Mat. 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14-15)

• Commission (Mat. 28:19-20)

"faith WITHOUT works is dead" to The Twelve tribes
(James 1:1, 2:17,20,26) ►►► NO osas in view ◄◄◄

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God’s Other Context Of GRACE / Mystery Program Has Its Own:

• Apostle (Rom. 11:13; 1 Tim. 2:7)

• Gospel Of GRACE (1 Cor. 15:3-4; Eph. 2:8-9)

• Commission (2 Cor. 5:14-21; Eph. 3:9) To "The Body Of Christ!":

"Grace Through faith," Apart From ALL [man's] works, To Eternal Life!
(Eph 2:8-9; Rom 3:24, 4:5; Tit 3:5-7; Now God's OPERATION 1Co 12:13)

►►► OSAS In view ◄◄◄:

2) 144 Plain and Clear Passages For God's Eternal Life, According to
The Revelation Of The Mystery, That no one can overturn:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance
-----------------------------

Conclusion: TWO Different programs are Not the same;
Never Mix them Up in Confusion (Romans_11:6), Correct?

-----------------------------
Precious friend(s):

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

I knew nothing about dispensationalists until a few months ago. I joined a website that was dispensationalist based. I upset someone on the site, who has endlessly studied for decades. I started a thread pointing out the new covenant as stated in Heb10:15-18 is now fully reflected in dispensationalists lives. The man got quite rude and offensive towards me.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I knew nothing about dispensationalists until a few months ago. I joined a website that was dispensationalist based. I upset someone on the site, who has endlessly studied for decades. I started a thread pointing out the new covenant as stated in Heb10:15-18 is now fully reflected in dispensationalists lives. The man got quite rude and offensive towards me.

Be careful. There are some who believe in dispensations that have a skewed view of what it means

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I knew nothing about dispensationalists until a few months ago. I joined a website that was dispensationalist based. I upset someone on the site, who has endlessly studied for decades. I started a thread pointing out the new covenant as stated in Heb10:15-18 is now fully reflected in dispensationalists lives. The man got quite rude and offensive towards me.

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully I am different...

 

[thomas64]

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully I am different...

Does a dispensationalist have knowledge/consciousness of sin in their mind? Yes they do
Does a dispensationalist have heartfelt conviction of sin? Yes they do
By the law is the knowledge of sin Rom3:20. Therefore, if Paul is correct, dispensationalists have law in their hearts and minds.
Do dispensationalists know their sins and iniquities will be remembered no more? Yes they do
Do dispensationalists know there is no more offering for sin? Yes they do

 

[rogerg]

well lets pray they do not die before then.

sorry man, that makes no sense.. literally no sense

If they're of the elect, they won't die before then - God will ensure that doesn't happen.

Okay, if it doesn't make sense to you, then it doesn't, and we'll let it go at that, but it comes down to
simply this: that Christ alone is the Saviour.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

If they're of the elect, they won't die before then - God will ensure that doesn't happen.

Okay, if it doesn't make sense to you, then it doesn't, and we'll let it go at that, but it comes down to
simply this: that Christ alone is the Saviour.

We agree Christ alone is savior

And he determines who will be saved and who will not

 

[Runningman]

We agree Christ alone is savior

After looking through many pages of your comments, I see you're very careful to not call Christ your Lord. Maybe if you called Jesus your Lord you might have to actually do something he commanded you to do? Kinda antithetical to your entire faith alone mantra isn't it?

 

[HeIsHere]

After looking through many pages of your comments, I see you're very careful to not call Christ your Lord. Maybe if you called Jesus your Lord you might have to actually do something he commanded you to do? Kinda antithetical to your entire faith alone mantra isn't it?

I am still waiting on who Jesus is in your view, some type of demi-god?

 

[posthuman]

After looking through many pages of your comments, I see you're very careful to not call Christ your Lord. Maybe if you called Jesus your Lord you might have to actually do something he commanded you to do? Kinda antithetical to your entire faith alone mantra isn't it?

calling Him "LORD" isn't less than "Lord"

it is more

 

[Runningman]

I am still waiting on who Jesus is in your view, some type of demi-god?

You reacted to my last post with an angry emoji and it made me realize you may be stumbling. I don't want be associated with any problems you may be having, whether real or perceived, so I gracefully withdrew from commenting further on the Bible regarding that topic. Thanks for asking though. God bless.

 

[HeIsHere]

You reacted to my last post with an angry emoji and it made me realize you may be stumbling. I don't want be associated with any problems you may be having, whether real or perceived, so I gracefully withdrew from commenting further on the Bible regarding that topic. Thanks for asking though. God bless.

Denying Jesus is God should be something that angers every believer.

 

[posthuman]

You reacted to my last post with an angry emoji and it made me realize you may be stumbling.

i have done this long enough to understand that when one is not well received, the first place to look for fault is in one's self and one's own words, not in others.

if nothing else perhaps i have not spoken well; i have not made my own case. if a student does not do well. have i not failed as a teacher? and who bears the greatest responsibility - the one with knowledge or the one without?

in Whom does knowledge dwell




we should examine ourselves and our positions, daily, to see if they are in the faith.

 

[posthuman]

. I don't want be associated with any problems

Too late lol.

But your failure to understand is our failure to communicate.
((apologies to @Cameron143 your point about the Emmaus road is still valid on my mind))

When one member of the body is put to shame, the whole body suffers

 

[posthuman]

It's something I don't get at the moment is alot of people thinking water baptism is part of receiving eternal life.

Having water baptism for receiving eternal life is the mark of a non Christian religion. A cult in the negative sense of being a cult.

Yet it is getting more and more common

I will never disregard the command to be baptized and to baptize nor set aside the reason for it but - -

Amen, our faith is not in H2O
it is in Christ and what He has done - in God-With-Us dying and rising and ascending and coming again for His bride

 

[posthuman]

well, nuts.


i have no argument with this decision but go on record saying i had nothing to do with it.

post never gives up hope