Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Snacks]

Is it required that Jesus is your Lord?

Jesus Christ is Lord of all creation whether people want to acknowledge that or not.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Reading this standalone, explain what it means - according to you, you should be able to do so.

[Dan 7:3-8 KJV]
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and [it had] three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it [was] diverse from all the beasts that [were] before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn [were] eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Speaking of the end times and the nations that will come against Israel. That is a dream, that is not the same as a verse that is obvious like "The joy of the Lord is my strength." The dream is describing what he is seeing. Apples to oranges.

 

[Runningman]

if I require grace because I can not obey Gods commands as required

You can;t tell me I need to do what I can't do in order to be saved.

\Your putting people under law my friend.. The law will condemn you where you stand, once again, Stop watering the law down.

No one is talking about the law except you.

You are required to obey Christ's teaching or you aren't a Christian and Jesus isn't your Lord. This isn't personal, that's just the reality of what it means to be a Christian and for Jesus to be Lord.

John 14
23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

 

[rogerg]

Jesus wept."

Why?

 

[rogerg]

Speaking of the end times and the nations that will come against Israel. That is a dream, that is not the same as a verse that is obvious like "The joy of the Lord is my strength." The dream is describing what he is seeing. Apples to oranges.

They are verses of scripture, not different than any other verses - scripture follows scripture's rules. You're ducking.

 

[Cameron143]

You did not answer my question. Who's job is it to convict the world?

When you reject Christ, who are you saying no to? Who are you calling a liar?

You are all over the place. I'm only talking about the difference of what is just and what is fair and on what basis God sends someone to hell.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Who is talking about the law of Moses except you?

I am talking about Jesus being your Lord. Jesus didn't say to keep the law of Moses.

Jesus gave us Christ's law and if you call Jesus your Lord then you have to obey him. If you don't obey him then he isn't your Lord. It's really as simple as that.

Again, is Jesus your Lord and do you obey him? This a fundamental question every Christian should be able to answer.

God gave Moses his law. It is referred to as the law of Moses because he brought the laws of God to the people.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You are all over the place. I'm only talking about the difference of what is just and what is fair and on what basis God sends someone to hell.

so am I,

It is the Holy Spirits job to do what I keep saying, He not only inspired the word, he is the one who convicts the world. so when people reject the Gospel. they in effect call him a liar. reject him, or blaspheme him

all matter of sin and blasphemy shall be forgive men, but blasphemy of the spirit shall never be forgiven

there is your only unpardonably sin

what is the blasphemy of the spirit? Unbelief.

another way to look at it

People who go to hell do so because they earned it

People who will be brought to heaven did not do anything, they just allowed God to save them..

that is a fair God and a just God.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I was going to help you out a little but after reading several of your responces I would say you can handle yourself very well you see clearly I can tell you that

Brother I don't mean to come across as obnoxious. I have grown up in the church, I have spent years in evangelism. I think we both have the same heart in that area. I think you'd agree it's a lot different sharing the Gospel here and going out on the street and sharing the Gospel. And it is the most important job we do as a Christian. A group that sings a song " I catch 'em, He cleans 'em" in reference to us being fishers of men. I really like that. That's the only type of fishing I know how to do. lol I have fellowshipped with Christians of every denomination and have found unity on some level with each. I hope that can happen at CC too. I appreciate each one, you have made me dig deeper, study and read more in the Word, in a way, God has used you all. So whatever I think I you all, I thank my God. Blessings!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You believe God isn't the regenerator?

Yes

Regeneration happens through justification though

we are dead BECAUSE OF SIN

hence we can not be made alive (regenerated) UNTIL that sin is removed

that process is called justification

hence justification must precede regeneration

we are justified by faith..

conviction and drawing of the HS

repentance - as we through the power of this conviction and the power of the word start to learn and realize the truth about us and God

faith once we truly repent, and as the tax collector. fall on our knees in brokenness

justification

regeneration.

we are saved (made alive) by grace through faith. we can not remove faith from the equation

 

[BillG]

Of course it is.

The point I was leading up to is that God sends people to hell because of sin.

The argument being put forth is that Jesus paid for the sins of every person...past, present, and future. And that unbelief and not sin is the reason that people whose sins have been paid for is the reason.

The reason no one answered is because if unbelief is a sin, then it too must have been paid for and there is no reason for them to be in hell if you follow their argument to its conclusion.

Totally confused with your post.

I believe the following.

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The sins of the world were paid on the cross when Jesus said

John 19:30
30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Then

Matthew 27:51
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,

At this point everyone has access to the Father through our faith in Jesus when we repent of the sin of unbelief in him.

Romans 5:1-2

Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

The sin of unbelief has been paid for but Jesus says that we must repent of that sin.
If we do not then we are not saved.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Why?

Context, but there is nothing that can be added to say "no that's not true, He didn't weep at all".

 

[rogerg]

Context, but there is nothing that can be added to say "no that's not true, He didn't weep at all".

It was said for a reason. Without knowing what that is, we can't know the intent of the verse.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No one is talking about the law except you.

You are required to obey Christ's teaching or you aren't a Christian and Jesus isn't your Lord. This isn't personal, that's just the reality of what it means to be a Christian and for Jesus to be Lord.

John 14
23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

You are watering down the law

You are saying I can fall short of the law. yet still be saved.

which will be the fact of every person who is saved. because no one can keep the law

then claim it is a requirment

well your condemning yourself and everyone.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

They are verses of scripture, not different than any other verses - scripture follows scripture's rules. You're ducking.

No, one is a dream, it's describing a dream. That is not the same as the statement that God is Savior of all.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

It was said for a reason. Without knowing what that is, we can't know the intent of the verse.

Read the Chapter, it will still be the same. Christ is Savior of all.

 

[Cameron143]

so am I,

It is the Holy Spirits job to do what I keep saying, He not only inspired the word, he is the one who convicts the world. so when people reject the Gospel. they in effect call him a liar. reject him, or blaspheme him

all matter of sin and blasphemy shall be forgive men, but blasphemy of the spirit shall never be forgiven

there is your only unpardonably sin

what is the blasphemy of the spirit? Unbelief.

another way to look at it

People who go to hell do so because they earned it

People who will be brought to heaven did not do anything, they just allowed God to save them..

that is a fair God and a just God.

That's not unpardonable sin but it does explain alot. Blessings.

 

[rogerg]

No, one is a dream, it's describing a dream. That is not the same as the statement that God is Savior of all.

Come on. It is in the Bible. So, then you are saying there is no intent to those verses, and therefore, they cannot be explained by the Bible alone? Really? Nope. The Bible is fully complete within itself needing nothing outside of itself for further clarification/explanation.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Yes

Regeneration happens through justification though

we are dead BECAUSE OF SIN

hence we can not be made alive (regenerated) UNTIL that sin is removed

that process is called justification

hence justification must precede regeneration

we are justified by faith..

conviction and drawing of the HS

repentance - as we through the power of this conviction and the power of the word start to learn and realize the truth about us and God

faith once we truly repent, and as the tax collector. fall on our knees in brokenness

justification

regeneration.

we are saved (made alive) by grace through faith. we can not remove faith from the equation

None of that happens because our natural carnal mind decides to believe. God tells us it cannot believe if its own choice because his message, the things of God, are thought to be foolishness to that carnal natural minded person.

Only after God intercedes is any change in the individual possible.

 

[rogerg]

Read the Chapter, it will still be the same. Christ is Savior of all.

How do you know what the impact of it is, or what God had intended to convey, if you don't understand the verse - you don't know what you don't know so you can't explain it. This is getting ridiculous.