Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R

Runningman

Banned
#4,221
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#4,221
The_Watchers_2017 said:
Do you follow the Gospel of Mark that in the NAME of Jesus/ I say Yeshua be healed, or whatever mountain you are facing before the miracle happens?
Click to expand...
Come to think of it, many of the miracles or signs I’ve seen worked through me were in the presence of unbelievers or those weak/young in the faith.

It always involves prayer, making sure those who hear it know this is for the glory of God, in Jesus name.

Sometimes it isn’t instantaneous.

One time I prayed for someone’s epilepsy to cease and after 3 days it did and never returned.

Why did it take 3 days? I was informed in a dream. In this dream she was on an operating table surrounded by angels with their hands on her, I was at the door holding it closed as an impish looking demon was trying to get in. The demon/unclean spirit had to be binded first.

This is an important aspect of how these things work. I learned it through experience.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4,222
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
#4,222
Runningman said:
Everything you showed is something people can have. It didn't prove your point.
Click to expand...
That is exactly the point, and you proved it.

We can have these things now - life, resurrection, knowledge of God, a heavenly home - now - because He alone gives them to us. None of these things are of the world, and when He had not yet revealed Himself to us, being born of a virgin the only 'son' of The heavenly Father, no man had knowledge of God, no man had life, no man had true resurrection - to eternal life - and no man was born of heaven.

It is through Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone that any man has anything - no man is the origin of life and resurrection and knowledge of God, but Christ. The Son of Man alone among men gives these things to men.

Who does this make Him?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4,223
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
#4,223
Not just someone who has risen,
He is The Resurrection

Not just someone who is alive,
He is The Life

Not just someone who knows what is right,
He is The Truth

Not just someone who walks wisely,
He is The Way
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#4,224
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#4,224
posthuman said:
Not just someone who has risen,
He is The Resurrection
Click to expand...
God raised Jesus from the dead:

Acts 2:24
24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Not just someone who is alive,
He is The Life
Click to expand...
For those who follow his way that was given to him by the Father.

Not just someone who knows what is right,
He is The Truth
Click to expand...
Jesus spoke the truth from his Father:

John 12
49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Not just someone who walks wisely,
He is The Way
Click to expand...
The way Jesus showed us is the way the Father showed him.

Following this way leads to life.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#4,225
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#4,225
posthuman said:
That is exactly the point, and you proved it.

We can have these things now - life, resurrection, knowledge of God, a heavenly home - now - because He alone gives them to us. None of these things are of the world, and when He had not yet revealed Himself to us, being born of a virgin the only 'son' of The heavenly Father, no man had knowledge of God, no man had life, no man had true resurrection - to eternal life - and no man was born of heaven.

It is through Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone that any man has anything - no man is the origin of life and resurrection and knowledge of God, but Christ. The Son of Man alone among men gives these things to men.

Who does this make Him?
Click to expand...
You demonstrated that we can have the same blessings and abilities that Jesus had and they come from God the Father. If that’s your only point then I agree.
 
T

ThewindBlows

Active member
#4,227
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
#4,227
Runningman said:
God raised Jesus from the dead:
Click to expand...
Also the Holy Spirit rose Jesus (1 Peter 3:18). And Jesus raised himself (Romans 8:11)

Father Spirit and Word, as it was from the beginning Read Gen 1:1 you see God, Gen 1:2 you see Spirit, Gen 1:3 you see Word

You could call it the Godhead, But you cant remove either from being God

Runningman said:
For those who follow his way that was given to him by the Father.
Click to expand...
Its a title, Jesus is Life, That's why when one becomes born again they receive eternal Life when they receive Jesus, as Jesus is Life

Runningman said:
Jesus spoke the truth from his Father:
Click to expand...
John 17:17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. (Psalm 138:2)

The Name above every name = Jesus (Philippians 2:9)

Jesus is the Word, The Word is God

Runningman said:
The way Jesus showed us is the way the Father showed him.

Following this way leads to life.
Click to expand...
Jesus is the way, No one can come to the Father but by him, Jesus said if you have seen him you have seen the Father, Also If anyone doesn't have the spirit of Jesus they are not his children
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#4,228
Nov 20, 2018
23,801
8,619
113
#4,228
Runningman said:
You demonstrated that we can have the same blessings and abilities that Jesus had and they come from God the Father. If that’s your only point then I agree.
Click to expand...
They ALWAYS come from the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4,229
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
#4,229
Runningman said:
You demonstrated that we can have the same blessings and abilities that Jesus had and they come from God the Father. If that’s your only point then I agree.
Click to expand...
It is more than you are grasping.

Jesus in one place says "I give them life" - this isn't the same as saying He tells people how to receive life from the Father: Jesus Himself gives it.

No other man has ever done this.

The in another place, even more powerfully, He declares that He Himself is Life.

No other man has ever done this.

Only God can give life:

Deuteronomy 32:39
Now see that I, [even] I, [am] He,
And [there is] no God besides Me;
I kill and I make alive;
I wound and I heal;
Nor [is there any] who can deliver from My hand.

and only God is life - the presence of the breath of the Spirit of Life is what differentiates life from death.



You had said if Jesus was more than a man He must be things no other man can be.
QED He is.
In fact He is things only God alone can be.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#4,230
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#4,230
posthuman said:
It is more than you are grasping.

Jesus in one place says "I give them life" - this isn't the same as saying He tells people how to receive life from the Father: Jesus Himself gives it.

No other man has ever done this.
Click to expand...
What you aren’t grasping is that Jesus was given the authority to do this by his Father, his God.

John 6
37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.



You had said if Jesus was more than a man He must be things no other man can be.
QED He is.
In fact He is things only God alone can be.
Click to expand...
And so far you’ve failed to demonstrate that the words of life Jesus spoke were something only he could say. Actually, the apostles spoke them too.

John 6
63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

James 1
21Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Ephesians 1
13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#4,232
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#4,232
ThewindBlows said:
Also the Holy Spirit rose Jesus (1 Peter 3:18). And Jesus raised himself (Romans 8:11)

Father Spirit and Word, as it was from the beginning Read Gen 1:1 you see God, Gen 1:2 you see Spirit, Gen 1:3 you see Word

You could call it the Godhead, But you cant remove either from being God



Its a title, Jesus is Life, That's why when one becomes born again they receive eternal Life when they receive Jesus, as Jesus is Life



John 17:17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. (Psalm 138:2)

The Name above every name = Jesus (Philippians 2:9)

Jesus is the Word, The Word is God



Jesus is the way, No one can come to the Father but by him, Jesus said if you have seen him you have seen the Father, Also If anyone doesn't have the spirit of Jesus they are not his children
Click to expand...
Romans 8:11
11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 4
24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#4,233
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#4,233
Runningman said:
Come to think of it, many of the miracles or signs I’ve seen worked through me were in the presence of unbelievers or those weak/young in the faith.

It always involves prayer, making sure those who hear it know this is for the glory of God, in Jesus name.

Sometimes it isn’t instantaneous.

One time I prayed for someone’s epilepsy to cease and after 3 days it did and never returned.

Why did it take 3 days? I was informed in a dream. In this dream she was on an operating table surrounded by angels with their hands on her, I was at the door holding it closed as an impish looking demon was trying to get in. The demon/unclean spirit had to be binded first.

This is an important aspect of how these things work. I learned it through experience.
Click to expand...

I agree many times miracles definitely happen in front of the unbelieving.

What's interesting to me, since I am using the NAME of Jesus/Yeshua, I pray to Yeshua as being God Who is going to make the Miracle happen.
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#4,234
#4,234
Runningman said:
My response proves that disciples sharing glory with God doesn't necessarily make someone God.
Click to expand...
I just put in a request to have my account here deactivated.

I just wanted to say that I hope you come to recognize Christ's divinity somewhere down the line.

I wish you the best.

Farewell.
 
V

VARob

Banned
#4,235
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
#4,235
ThewindBlows said:
Also the Holy Spirit rose Jesus (1 Peter 3:18).
Click to expand...
The "Holy Spirit" is another name for God.

And Jesus raised himself (Romans 8:11)
Click to expand...
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

How does this verse say Jesus raised himself from the dead? Also, any person or entity that is dead can't do anything. They are dead.

The Bible clearly states in a couple dozen places that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead.
 
T

ThewindBlows

Active member
#4,238
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
#4,238
VARob said:
The "Holy Spirit" is another name for God.
Click to expand...
As is the Word, John 1:1

VARob said:
How does this verse say Jesus raised himself from the dead? Also, any person or entity that is dead can't do anything. They are dead.

The Bible clearly states in a couple dozen places that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead.
Click to expand...

John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Also Jesus talking about his body

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
 
T

ThewindBlows

Active member
#4,239
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
#4,239
Runningman said:
Romans 8:11
11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 4
24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Click to expand...
I missed these verses

John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

But you missed the rest of my post
 
You must log in or register to reply here.