The passage is about Abraham who had faith and works. Paul is saying faith and works go together, which is what Abraham had. Why are you ignoring that?
Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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The passage is about Abraham who had faith and works. Paul is saying faith and works go together, which is what Abraham had. Why are you ignoring that?
Not without 3
Galatians 3:11-12
But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."
This is what Romans 2:7 is saying. Read the whole of Romans 2 and don't stop there. Romans 3 is exactly what perfectly follows 2, 4 from 3, and 5 is exactly what perfectly follows from 1, 2, 3, 4. So we don't get to pull Galatians 5 out as though 1-4 don't exist.
In Romans 1-5 he's destroying the idea that people who are trusting in their good deeds will actually get the reward they think their good deeds will earn them, and giving the actual solution to sin.
That kind of trust in doing good deeds is not of faith, and whatever is not of faith is sin.
We do good deeds because it is wise, and because we love Him who saved us, and it pleases him. If you are afraid that your father will cease to be your father unless you keep doing your chores, you are doing your chores for the wrong reasons. That doesn't make doing chores wrong and it doesn't mean a daughter who loves her father without fear does not do her chores.
It means the paradigm is love and irrevocable family. Not slavery and constant anxiety.
This is not a discussion about whether Christians do good or not or whether what we do has consequences or not. It's a discussion about whether God is faithful or not and whether we live in love with God or in dread of Him.
What makes you think that just because I have faith I have no works?
The scripture makes it absolutely clear Abraham is justified by faith, not works. Since that is the case would you accuse him of having no works?
Do you need to see my resume? Lol
Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Does anyone think this means Paul is preaching that nothing we do matters?
Because he is adamant that true righteousness is by faith, not works?
Galatians 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Does anyone think this means the only way to receive grace is to keep the good works of the law?
For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Does anyone think this means Paul is preaching that nothing we do matters?
Because he is adamant that true righteousness is by faith, not works?
Galatians 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Does anyone think this means the only way to receive grace is to keep the good works of the law?
You're reading only half of the story my friend. Abraham was also justified by works; faith and works to be precise. I know OSAS people don't often quote James (which undoubtedly explains the hyper focus on faith alone), but James completes the true and accurate Biblical perspective, which is what I have been saying in this thread for many days.
James 2
14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless ? 21Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
Read more of Romans 2
Romans 2
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.
14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them 16on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.
Take this part into consideration "the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel." One of the many facets of Paul's message is that God will judge people by the law. What Paul is trying to tell people with Romans in a very long-winded way is to walk in the Spirit to stay in grace. Do not walk in the flesh to be under God's law.
I think that's your pessimistic view of what the Bible says. I certainly don't share in it, I love God and fear Him at the same time. I'm happy He's for me and not against me.
yes they do.
they need your resume and also need several references to be sure you are doing enough good works to earn your way into the Kingdom.
OSAS is a false characterization of the security of our hope, predicated on an unbiblical definition of salvation in which there is no supernatural working of God.
When it is mentioned it is only mentioned by those attacking it, and that attack always carries with it the tacit accusation that anyone who believes the actual gospel - that God came to earth in the form of a man, Jesus Christ born of a virgin, to die for our sin making full atonement so that all who put their trust in Him could be redeemed - that if we believe this we are necessarily only using our liberty as an excuse to sin.
I do not believe OSAS.
I believe that God is at work in the hearts of those He purchased and that He is faithful; He does not fail to complete what He began.
Romans 4:2
if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Who is the "someone" James says will say these things?
So is James talking about our salvation or our witness before humans that do not believe?
About our justification before God or justification before men?
Amen! In James 2:21, notice that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)
Clearly,
.His "too bad" was a bit confronting but humility is very powerful.
I have learnt that people's behaviour/manner of speech is sometimes because of past experiences.
In order to win souls for Christ, one must be dead to self.
Besides that, this "once saved always saved" doctrine is such a deception.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 KJV
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
No doubt behavior is often derived from past experiences. Add to that the insatiable appetite some folks have for wanting to win arguments at all cost rather than ascertaining truth.Clearly,
His "too bad" was a bit confronting but humility is very powerful.
I have learnt that people's behaviour/manner of speech is sometimes because of past experiences.
In order to win souls for Christ, one must be dead to self.
Besides that, this "once saved always saved" doctrine is such a deception.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 KJV
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
But James does say that the justification that Abraham was made righteous came when he offered up his son Isaac. Works! That's the difference. The body of Christ is not justified by works. Ever.
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
OSAS does not at all mean that there is no supernatural working of God.
It is the exact opposite, the acronym means the once a person is saved there are always saved because it is a supernatural/spiritual event.
Not a fan of this website due to its Calvinist leanings but even they agree.
Once a person is saved are they always saved? Yes, when people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure. To be clear, salvation is more than saying a prayer or “making a decision” for Christ; salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby an unregenerate sinner is washed, renewed, and born again by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3; Titus 3:5). When salvation occurs, God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him (Ezekiel 36:26). The Spirit will cause the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s Word (Ezekiel 36:26–27; James 2:26). Numerous passages of Scripture declare the fact that, as an act of God, salvation is secure:
https://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html
Clearly,
His "too bad" was a bit confronting but humility is very powerful.
I have learnt that people's behaviour/manner of speech is sometimes because of past experiences.
In order to win souls for Christ, one must be dead to self.
Besides that, this "once saved always saved" doctrine is such a deception.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 KJV
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Are you saying "once saved always saved" is a deception?
Definitely.
The word of God states clearly.
If and if and if
If we are "always saved"
Then where is the enduring?
Overcoming?
Where is the battle?
Matthew 24:24
"If it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
To use the Judas as an example for either side is a fruitless endeavour, I actually think it displeases God to go into His territory.